Logging Time

hammer

New Member
Someone I know has a King Air that he uses for business. For "insurance reasons," he had to hire a co-pilot.

Question ... what time can the co-pilot log while flying this airplane? If the King Air does not require two pilots, can you still log SIC time?

Thanks.
 

Jeff_S_KDTW

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Someone I know has a King Air that he uses for business. For "insurance reasons," he had to hire a co-pilot.

Question ... what time can the co-pilot log while flying this airplane? If the King Air does not require two pilots, can you still log SIC time?

[/ QUOTE ]Irrespective of who is "acting" PIC, the co-pilot may log the time that he is flying the King Air as PIC. Remember that as far as the FARs are concerned (61.51), the properly rated pilot who is the sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC time.

The matter of "logging" PIC and "acting" PIC are separate issues.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Someone I know has a King Air that he uses for business. For "insurance reasons," he had to hire a co-pilot.

Question ... what time can the co-pilot log while flying this airplane? If the King Air does not require two pilots, can you still log SIC time?

[/ QUOTE ]The King Air is certificated for single pilot operations. Deciding that some help would be nice or even an insurance requirement for a second pilot does not change it into an aircraft or an operation that requires more than one pilot in the FAA's eyes (a requirement for any scenario, except flight instruction, that would allow both pilots to log the same flight time).

So each pilot may write the numbers for the time he was the one doing the flying in the PIC column of his logbook and nothing for the time he was not.

Or one of them can always fly under the hood
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
The Beech 1900 is a single-pilot certified aircraft if you perform the single-pilot type rating checkride.

Since I didn't do the specific "single-pilot" type rating checkride, my type says "BE-1900: Second in command required"
 

sopdan

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
So each pilot may write the numbers for the time he was the one doing the flying in the PIC column of his logbook and nothing for the time he was not.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the pilot in the right seat is the sole manipulator of the controls (thus logging PIC), can't the pilot in the left seat still log at as PIC as he is ultimately responsible for the flight?
 

Jeff_S_KDTW

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
If the pilot in the right seat is the sole manipulator of the controls (thus logging PIC), can't the pilot in the left seat still log at as PIC as he is ultimately responsible for the flight?

[/ QUOTE ]It doesn't matter if he is "acting" PIC from a logging standpoint unless he is a required crewmember. The conditions set forth in 61.51 below are the only ways we can log PIC (when we're not talking about CFIs & ATPs).[ QUOTE ]
FAR 61.51(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in- command time only for that flight time during which that person --

(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated;

(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or

(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

[/ QUOTE ]Thus, we can see that the only time ~both~ of our hypothetical pilots can write down PIC time is when one of them is the "sole manipulator of the controls" and the other is "acting" PIC "when more than one pilot is required under the type certification or the regulations under which the flight is conducted (i.e. safety pilot)."
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If the pilot in the right seat is the sole manipulator of the controls (thus logging PIC), can't the pilot in the left seat still log at as PIC as he is ultimately responsible for the flight?

[/ QUOTE ]Nope. Jeff is right, but that's an extremely important question because the answer is one of the golden keys to actually understanding how these sometimes confusing logging rules work.

Unless 61.51 specifically tells us to look at a responsibility rule, "being responsible for the flight" has absolutely nothing to do with putting numbers in the PIC column in a logbook.

Doug and others with airline experience can probably talk about this better than I, but I think this is one of the reasons that some pilots with career aspirations add an "acting PIC" column to their logbooks.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If you're a CFI you can both log it!

[/ QUOTE ]Absolutely. But that's because 61.51 says "An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor."

Again, "being responsible for the flight" has =absolutely nothing= to do with it.
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Agreed!

But this is about adding Turbine Multi to your logbook. There are legal definitions of logbook time, and then there are airline definitions. United might not like it much but an insurance company will count it.
 
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