Logging time while not day/night current

Maybe a simpler scenario?

Pilot Kalikiano is not current to carry passengers (hasn't done the required 3 landings in 90 days) Kalikiano's pilot friend is current to carry passengers. Can they fly together? Certainly because Kalikiano is the passenger. Can Kalikiano perform 3 landings on the flight and become current again? Absolutely. Can he also perform 6 practice approaches and a hold and become IFR current? As long as he hasn't been out of IFR currency for over 12 months (thus requiring a IPC), yes he sure can. In My Opinion

As far as how to log the time, I'll defer to MidlifeFlyer on that
 
blaise723 said:
I was under the impression the only times a pilot not manipulating the controls could act as PIC in an aircraft certified for single pilot operations only, was during the time in which they served as a safety pilot and the other pilot flew under simulated instrument conditions, or when acting as an instructor.
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Nope. If a non-CFI does an EAA Young Eagles flight and allows the child to fly the airplane, the real pilot is still definitely PIC.

You may be confusing logging with acting:

the only times a pilot not manipulating the controls could log as PIC in an aircraft certified for single pilot operations only, was during the time in which they served as a safety pilot and the other pilot flew under simulated instrument conditions, or when acting as an instructor
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.

Acting as PIC is about taking responsibility. A pilot can certainly take on responsibility for a flight, even if a non-current pilot or even a non-pilot is permitted by the command pilot to handle the controls.
 
I feel retarded reading all this. To make this 100% clear as mud, one acting as PIC and the other being the sole manipulator of the controls DOES mean both can log that time as PIC time in their respective log books? I understand there is a difference between signing off for the plane and being responsible, and actually putting your hands on the yoke (don't airlines do this every other flight?), but who gets to log it in their books as PIC flight time, I'm thinking the guy who signed off. I don't think there is two different columns in the log book for acting/manipulating flight time.
 
deek said:
DOES mean both can log that time as PIC time in their respective log books?
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There is actually no provision in the regulations for logging PIC by right of being the acting PIC, other than when functioning as a safety pilot.
 
tgrayson said:
There is actually no provision in the regulations for logging PIC by right of being the acting PIC, other than when functioning as a safety pilot.
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Ok so when two airline pilots go flying and the FO is manipulating the controls, only he is putting anything in the PIC column? Same goes for a training flight where the student (lets presume a comm student) get to put anything in the PIC column and the CFI doesn't get to put anything in since he is just acting PIC?

Please don't think I'm saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to wrap my head around it, and appreciate your help.

P.S. I just read your Logging Flight Time article, very nice, seems almost too easy, and I should be looking through my log book to find some extra PIC time I may qualify for.
 
deek said:
Ok so when two airline pilots go flying and the FO is manipulating the controls, only he is putting anything in the PIC column?
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Well, no, I should have limited my statement to the non-ATP, but I was trying to keep it in context and not oversupply information. An ATP can log the time merely by acting as PIC.

Same goes for a training flight where the student (lets presume a comm student) get to put anything in the PIC column and the CFI doesn't get to put anything in since he is just acting PIC?
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The instructor is logging the PIC time by acting as an instructor, not by acting as PIC. The instructor isn't necessarily the PIC, but can always log the time as such.

seems almost too easy,
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Thanks, that's when I know "mission accomplished."
 
So airline ATP guys are a unique instance, same as flight instructors, all others, if you're flying and rated, you're logging, other wise you're not.

Thanks sir,
 
deek said:
So airline ATP guys are a unique instance, same as flight instructors, all others, if you're flying and rated, you're logging, other wise you're not.
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Not quite. It's not a matter of uniqueness for ATPs or CFIs. It's a matter of going through 61.51(e) (the part of FAR 61.51 that deals with logging PIC time) and seeing if what you are doing fits one of the categories.

If what you are doing fits a category, you may log PIC time. If what you are doing doing does not fit a category, you may not.

So, for example, the commercial pilot in command of a Part 135 flight under IFR (whether or not the airplane generally requires two pilots) may log PIC time whether or not doing the actual flying because 61.51(e)(1)(ii) says:

==============================
A ... commercial ... pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-

... When the pilot ... acts as pilot in command of an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under ... the regulations under which the flight is conducted
==============================

and FAR 135.101 says that an Part 135 IFR passenger flight is an operation that requires more than one pilot (with some exceptions).
 
deek said:
So airline ATP guys are a unique instance, same as flight instructors, all others, if you're flying and rated, you're logging, other wise you're not.

Thanks sir,
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Like Mid life said, the CFI is logging PIC under the CFI provision, but the ATP is logging time, only when he is a required crew member, which would be as acting PIC on a 121 flight. The FO is logging SIC, unless he has the applicable type rating, and in the case of 121 an ATP certificate. This is also why the only time two people with neither being a CFI are both logging PIC, is when one is under the foggles, because then they are both required crew members
 
Since I'm still a student pilot and working on time building leading up to my comm cert I have yet to get into the whole PIC/SIC time regs but will certainly start looking into it more. Is SIC time something people put in a separate column? Doesn't seem like any job ad I have seen asks for any SIC time, I'm guessing it just keeps adding to the TT column.
 
deek said:
Since I'm still a student pilot and working on time building leading up to my comm cert I have yet to get into the whole PIC/SIC time regs but will certainly start looking into it more. Is SIC time something people put in a separate column? Doesn't seem like any job ad I have seen asks for any SIC time, I'm guessing it just keeps adding to the TT column.
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It goes in TT and SIC columns. In a single-engine piston, it is really useless time, unless you need the TT.
 
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