Logging time toward ATP

3enginejock

Well-Known Member
I have a question. I am currently working at a 135 outfit as a SF340 SIC. I am wondering how to log time as acting PIC under the supervision of a PIC. Check the bold part below. Some Captains told me to log all the legs I fly as PIC in my logbook but I don't feel right logging PIC when I am not even fully type rated, only SIC rated. How do you guys recommend that I log the time so it will look ok in my logbook when the time comes. Im currently lacking about 75 or so hours of PIC time for the ATP. Thanks for the help.

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Sec. 61.159 Aeronautical experience: Airplane Category rating.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica](a) A person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and class rating must have at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica](1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time.
(2) 100 hours of night flight time.
(3) 75 hours of instrument flight time, in actual or simulated instrument conditions:
(i) An applicant may not receive credit for more than a total of 25 hours of simulated instrument time in a flight simulator or flight training device.
(ii) A maximum of 50 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(3) if the training was accomplished in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142.
(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties and functions of a pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command or any combination thereof, which includes at least:
(i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time ; and
(ii) 25 hours of night flight time.
(5) Not more than 100 hours of the total aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section may be obtained in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents an airplane, provided this aeronautical experience was obtained in an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142. [/FONT]​
 
If you're not comfortable logging PIC then log the SIC. If the aircraft requires it and you hold the appropriate type then log it as SIC. Log it as SIC and in your remarks write what PIC duties you performed.

Be honest and able to justify everything you logged and you won't have a problem.
 
You cannot log PIC for an airplane for which you are not PIC rated. That's why on the back of your certificate, I'm sure is says something like "SF340 SIC Type".

Look at the reg you just quoted:

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica](4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties and functions of a pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command or any combination thereof, which includes at least:[/FONT]

Right there is says you can count SIC time towards your ATP. Then, like esa17 said, write the PIC duties you performed in your logbook.
 
For me personally, I wouldn't log PIC time on an aircraft that requires two crewmembers, unless I'm PIC type rated and my name is on the dispatch release and I'm signing for it.
 
I fly a Saab as well, and yea, you cant log any of it PIC.

Some people have said their airline found a way around that part of the ATP requirement, then I have heard the opposite of people having to rent a plane and get the PIC time in a Cessna. Luckily I came to my airline after instructing for a bit so I had the PIC time. The other dumb time can be covered as an SIC.
 
I'm not sure how much SIC time you have, or if IBC does international flying but don't forget this part of the same reg.


(d) An applicant may be issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the endorsement, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,” as prescribed by Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant:

(1) Credits second-in-command or flight-engineer time under paragraph (c) of this section toward the 1,500 hours total flight time requirement of paragraph (a) of this section;

(2) Does not have at least 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot, including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command time and none of his or her flight-engineer time; and

(3) Otherwise meets the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section.

(e) When the applicant specified in paragraph (d) of this section presents satisfactory evidence of the accumulation of 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command flight time and none of his or her flight-engineer time, the applicant is entitled to an airline transport pilot certificate without the endorsement prescribed in that paragraph.
 
Yeah, that limitations is stupid. They'll remove it once you have the time.


I remember there was an FO at Comair who had a CRJ type rating from a previous job, and he would bring his logbook with him all the time and have Captains sign it, so he could log PIC time. I'm not sure if it was legit, but the guy did his research and talked with the FAA and gave him the thumbs up!
 
Almost all of our flying is international... Hopefully this doesnt come back to bite me in the ass when its time to upgrade but we will have to see. Would really hate to have to fork over cash to rent a 172 to get the pic time.
 
You cannot log PIC for an airplane for which you are not PIC rated. That's why on the back of your certificate, I'm sure is says something like "SF340 SIC Type".

Look at the reg you just quoted:

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica](4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties and functions of a pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command or any combination thereof, which includes at least:[/FONT]

Right there is says you can count SIC time towards your ATP. Then, like esa17 said, write the PIC duties you performed in your logbook.

^ What he said. Worth a shot. :D
 
Back
Top