Logging time in a Conquest

Zero1Niner

Zero1Niner

Well-Known Member
May have an opportunity to fly right seat in a Conquest, and I wanted to ask about logging time. All flights are pt 91. My question is can I log SIC if I fly right seat? SIC is not a required crew member in that airplane I believe.
 
A Conquest does not require an SIC, it is a single pilot airplane. However, are you sitting right seat just to be sitting, or are you doing it because they need another pilot, say for insurance reasons???

Is the guy in the left seat going to let you fly? I know he may not right off the bat, but after a couple of flights once you have a feel for the plane, maybe you could sweet talk him into letting you fly (even if from the right seat) and then you can log PIC.

Another thing to think about, could this possible land you some flying time if the other pilot is not available, or on vacation or something? Even if you determine you can't log it all, it may be an advantage later on if you have the time to ride.
 
dc3flyer said:
A Conquest does not require an SIC, it is a single pilot airplane. However, are you sitting right seat just to be sitting, or are you doing it because they need another pilot, say for insurance reasons???

Is the guy in the left seat going to let you fly? I know he may not right off the bat, but after a couple of flights once you have a feel for the plane, maybe you could sweet talk him into letting you fly (even if from the right seat) and then you can log PIC.

Another thing to think about, could this possible land you some flying time if the other pilot is not available, or on vacation or something? Even if you determine you can't log it all, it may be an advantage later on if you have the time to ride.
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Exactly. The idea is that the captain will be training me to fly the airplane, and allowing me to fly reposition legs and any other legs with no passengers initially, and eventually possibly flying legs with people in the back.

You never know how these things shake out. Thanks DC3Flyer.
 
Zero1Niner said:
Exactly. The idea is that the captain will be training me to fly the airplane, and allowing me to fly reposition legs and any other legs with no passengers initially, and eventually possibly flying legs with people in the back.

You never know how these things shake out. Thanks DC3Flyer.
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Is the captain a CFI? If he is teaching log it as dual.
 
ppragman said:
sole manipulator = pic if you're qual'd for the airplane
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in this case (FAA definition) sole manipulator = logged PIC time if Zero is at least a private pilot with a AMEL rating (unless the Conquest happens to require a type rating - don't know, but probably not).

Since an SIC is not required for the aircraft and you're not doing an two-pilot required operation, logging SIC is out.

PIC or dual or both seem to be the best logging bets.
 
I think high-altitude and high-performance endorsements are required....

but I can't remeber. I've spent so much time in airline training world, there's a lot of rust on the GA part!!!!
 
I'm a little rusty on my FAA logbook regs, but doesn't the aircraft need to require a second crewmember to actually log 2IC time? And for dual, it would need to be with a PIC/instructor who is actually certified not only in category/class/type, but also as an instructor in said category/class/type. In other words it is my impression that in order to use your logged time towards any sort of type rating, it would need to be with an instructor in type. Correct me if I'm wrong....

That said, I see no reason why you couldn't log the time as 2IC just for personal reasons, or to say "hey I have xxxx hours as an unqualified crewmember, but I did fly it"
 
Polar742 said:
I think high-altitude and high-performance endorsements are required....

but I can't remeber. I've spent so much time in airline training world, there's a lot of rust on the GA part!!!!
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Not for logging PIC. "Ratings" is the operative word, not "endorsements."
 
///AMG said:
I'm a little rusty on my FAA logbook regs, but doesn't the aircraft need to require a second crewmember to actually log 2IC time?
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Either that or the operation has to require a second pilot. Common examples are Part 135 IFR passengers ops and the common under the hood/safety pilot scenarios.
And for dual, it would need to be with a PIC/instructor who is actually certified not only in category/class/type, but also as an instructor in said category/class/type.
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Good question. AFAIK, there are no CFI type ratings; only category and class. Check out 61.5(c) - it lists all ratings available on a CFI certificate.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Not for logging PIC. "Ratings" is the operative word, not "endorsements."
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Yeah I caught that. RTFQ, I guess.

I reckon unless it's operated under Pt.135 with a requirement for SIC, the time isn't loggable. In Part 91, there is no way to require a SIC on a single-pilot AC, AFAIK. You can recieve dual given, or you can log PIC on legs with the proper ratings and endorsements (As long as I remember correctly that a Conquest is a pressurized airplane)
 
Polar742 said:
Yeah I caught that. RTFQ, I guess.

I reckon unless it's operated under Pt.135 with a requirement for SIC, the time isn't loggable. In Part 91, there is no way to require a SIC on a single-pilot AC, AFAIK.
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The only one is a required safety pilot scenario.
 
I don't have the language from the FAA with me, but it says this. You log PIC if you are the sole manipulator. (as stated earlier). You can log PIC in that all day long as long as you a flying. Now, if you want to fly that without the other pilot then you will need endorsements (this a CFI with those endorsments can then endorse you) This all assuming you have your MEL. with out that you can't do anything.

Keep in mind. The captain is the PIC so if you crash is gets the trouble, but you can still log it because you are flying the airplane.
 
to log PIC as safety pilot, you need to be acting pic, and therefore you need the endorsements. for the "sole manipulator" scenario for logging PIC (but not acting PIC) only requires cat&class (and type if required) ratings.

I believe that you can't log SIC unless SIC is required and you are qualified for it.
 
I believe that you can't log SIC unless SIC is required and you are qualified for it.
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True, and one of those situations is a safety pilot. If you're a safety pilot, but the manipulator has agreed to act as PIC, you are still a required crewmember for the operation and thus, may log SIC per 61.51.

-mini
 
minitour said:
True, and one of those situations is a safety pilot. If you're a safety pilot, but the manipulator has agreed to act as PIC, you are still a required crewmember for the operation and thus, may log SIC per 61.51.

-mini
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OK, but in that case there are "in type" currency requirements under 61.55.b.2; although i am a bit unclear if that applies only to 61.51.f.1 or also to 61.51.f.2. maybe another "acting SIC" vs. "logging SIC" type thing?

also, you could as well log PIC if you were qualified to act as safety pilot, so why bother logging SIC?
 
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