Logging time after an initial type rating?

[irwin2018]

I received a PIC type rating a while back, but have the PIC limitation on my certificate due it being my first type and not meeting the hour requirements (in type or total turbine).

I was told this limitation can be taken off after 25 hours of flying with another PIC.

My Part 91 company King Air is typed for single pilot, but we often fly with two pilots on board.

1) How do I log the time after my initial type ride?
2) What is the purpose of recurrent, I assume since we operate under Part 91, the IFR (6 approaches, etc), PIC night (3 full stop for pax) must also be accomplished?
3) What happens if you do not complete recurrent?

 

[web265]

I had the same thing on my initial CJ4 rating. Not enough PIC time in the KA 200.

1) Here's what I did @2016....Log the time in a log book and also put it on a spreadsheet. In the log book, you are still PIC, you just have to have another appropriately rated PIC with you flying right seat. Also, you have to fly as PIC with an appropriately rated PIC as copilot. I don't think you can copilot and log the time.

When I got to 25 hours doing this, I had my CP sign the log (printed spreadsheet) and took it to the FSDO, they did some paperwork magic (8710?) and then issued a new temp and limitation was gone. New cert came in the mail a few weeks later.

2) not sure what you're calling a recurrent here. I don't think it applies to the limitation in any way. You're describing remaining landing and instrument current (sort of)

3) You're no longer current? I guess? Sorry if that sounds glib. I'm assuming your referring to a KA300 or or higher or you wouldn't need a type. For pure part 91 I'm not sure you have to go to recurrent from an FAA standpoint every year, but, you'd likely not be insured. Currency always applies though. When I flew the 200 we'd go to recurrent every 6 mos at Flight Safety. It was a lot more than just currency.

Back to #1 I believe it may be possible for CFI's to sign the paperwork off and you do it on line (IACRA) like a certificate upgrade, but I forget. You'll have to get confirmation on that one.

I'm sorry if that's all a little confusing, it's been a minute. I wouldn't have typed this if you had gotten a better answer by now.

 

[irwin2018]

I had the same thing on my initial CJ4 rating. Not enough PIC time in the KA 200.

1) Here's what I did @2016....Log the time in a log book and also put it on a spreadsheet. In the log book, you are still PIC, you just have to have another appropriately rated PIC with you flying right seat. Also, you have to fly as PIC with an appropriately rated PIC as copilot. I don't think you can copilot and log the time.

When I got to 25 hours doing this, I had my CP sign the log (printed spreadsheet) and took it to the FSDO, they did some paperwork magic (8710?) and then issued a new temp and limitation was gone. New cert came in the mail a few weeks later.

2) not sure what you're calling a recurrent here. I don't think it applies to the limitation in any way. You're describing remaining landing and instrument current (sort of)

3) You're no longer current? I guess? Sorry if that sounds glib. I'm assuming your referring to a KA300 or or higher or you wouldn't need a type. For pure part 91 I'm not sure you have to go to recurrent from an FAA standpoint every year, but, you'd likely not be insured. Currency always applies though. When I flew the 200 we'd go to recurrent every 6 mos at Flight Safety. It was a lot more than just currency.

Back to #1 I believe it may be possible for CFI's to sign the paperwork off and you do it on line (IACRA) like a certificate upgrade, but I forget. You'll have to get confirmation on that one.

I'm sorry if that's all a little confusing, it's been a minute. I wouldn't have typed this if you had gotten a better answer by now.

1) We always fly with a PIC onboard (dual crew) so I only logged the time as sole manipulator, per 61.51(e)i. The other PIC would do the same.

2) Recurrent is required for insurance (I think) and is typically done every 12 months.

3) I'm still current since my initial type and meet the IFR and PIC (day) requirements under Part 91.

So your CP flew with you for the required 25 hours? All the FSDO needed was a document of some sort (not an endorsement of sorts in your logbook)?

 

[web265]

1) We always fly with a PIC onboard (dual crew) so I only logged the time as sole manipulator, per 61.51(e)i. The other PIC would do the same.

We always flew with 2 as well (except for empty mx) That works. At my company I actually acted as PIC, My guess was as a training tool. Either should be fine.

2) Recurrent is required for insurance (I think) and is typically done every 12 months.

That's pretty much the norm as I understand it. Is this a question or confirmation of what I posted? When you wrote it out first time, it wasn't clear to me if you meant to conflate recurrent with currency.

3) I'm still current since my initial type and meet the IFR and PIC (day) requirements under Part 91.

As long as you meet the landing and IFR currency for the operation you're undertaking.

So your CP flew with you for the required 25 hours? All the FSDO needed was a document of some sort (not an endorsement of sorts in your logbook)?

No, I flew as PIC with any of the company pilots who were already typed in the aircraft. Sometimes that was the CP.
Yes, all the FSDO needed was the spreadsheet, they needed "documentation of" not a logbook.

 

[Wardogg]

Can I tack on a related question?

Say you are typed on a single pilot certified jet. The company is sending another pilot to FSI to get typed next month but wants to get them exposed to the left seat before going. You are not a MEI. Are you allowed to sit right seat in the jet as the typed pilot and allow a non typed pilot fly from the left?

 

[web265]

Part 91? Not 100% certain, but, I believe so. Can't you be PIC from either side. ....or are you setting me up @Wardogg ?

We didn't do it that way so I'm going back to my smaller aircraft experience. I did it many times on a Cheyenne II

What we did on the CJ4 was the SIC was flying pilot on empty legs to keep folks current (not legally but practically) from the right seat.

 

[Corporate Pilot]

Can I tack on a related question?

Say you are typed on a single pilot certified jet. The company is sending another pilot to FSI to get typed next month but wants to get them exposed to the left seat before going. You are not a MEI. Are you allowed to sit right seat in the jet as the typed pilot and allow a non typed pilot fly from the left?

Anything about your aircraft say the PIC must sit in the left seat? I believe some SP jets some do. We did it years ago on 2 pilot aircraft.

 

[Wardogg]

Part 91? Not 100% certain, but, I believe so. Can't you be PIC from either side. ....or are you setting me up @Wardogg ?

We didn't do it that way so I'm going back to my smaller aircraft experience. I did it many times on a Cheyenne II

What we did on the CJ4 was the SIC was flying pilot on empty legs to keep folks current (not legally but practically) from the right seat.

Yeah 91. I ummm....am asking for a friend. I just couldn't find anything in the FAR/AIM about PIC and seat positions.

Anything about your aircraft say the PIC must sit in the left seat? I believe some SP jets some do. We did it years ago on 2 pilot aircraft.

The only thing I can find in the aircraft books is that when operating single pilot, the pilot must be in the left seat.

 

[mikecweb]

Yeah 91. I ummm....am asking for a friend. I just couldn't find anything in the FAR/AIM about PIC and seat positions.


The only thing I can find in the aircraft books is that when operating single pilot, the pilot must be in the left seat.

Ask your insurance.

 

[Wardogg]

Ask your insurance.

Very good point.