Logging Right Seat Charter Time?

[tbmpilot]

I don't believe there is any such thing as an empty leg on a 135 if a sandbagger is onboard.

Let's examine. Here's a common scenario. You work for Operator 1. Operator 2 subs out a King Air trip to Operator 1 and says "Customer wants two pilots. We're gonna send one of our guys with you." Operator 1 lists Operator 2's pilot as a passenger on the manifest, not a crew member.

Aircraft is at airport A. The trip is booked as a repositioning leg to airport B, pick up the customer and take them to airport C, and then return to A with Operator 2's pilot. All of these legs seem to be 135 since you have a passenger on-board and the other pilot can't manipulate the flight controls.

 

[Vapor Lock]

I don't believe there is any such thing as an empty leg on a 135 if a sandbagger is onboard.

Let's examine. Here's a common scenario. You work for Operator 1. Operator 2 subs out a King Air trip to Operator 1 and says "Customer wants two pilots. We're gonna send one of our guys with you." Operator 1 lists Operator 2's pilot as a passenger on the manifest, not a crew member.

Aircraft is at airport A. The trip is booked as a repositioning leg to airport B, pick up the customer and take them to airport C, and then return to A with Operator 2's pilot. All of these legs seem to be 135 since you have a passenger on-board and the other pilot can't manipulate the flight controls.

Operator 2's 'guy' should just be considered a jump seater. he's not a paying customer so the protections given to pax under 135 need not apply. In fact, 'guy' should be getting paid for this. The problem with this scenario is that the real customer wanted two pilots and didn't really get them. No paying pax or freight then it's 91. I would agree that the flights and duty times all count towards the pilots 135 duty though.

 

[tbmpilot]

Operator 2's 'guy' should just be considered a jump seater. he's not a paying customer so the protections given to pax under 135 need not apply. In fact, 'guy' should be getting paid for this. The problem with this scenario is that the real customer wanted two pilots and didn't really get them. No paying pax or freight then it's 91. I would agree that the flights and duty times all count towards the pilots 135 duty though.

Is there any regulatory authority on this? I worked for a freight operator that had jumpseater language in the Ops Manual, but at my current operator there is no such language. For myself, I make sure they're listed as a passenger, run through the no-fly list, and don't touch anything.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

The operator 2 pilot/passenger doesn't have a current 8410 at operator 1 and therefore cannot act as a crewmember, even if he does have a current 8410 at operator 2 for the same type of aircraft. He can sit up there and look like he is important though.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[Vapor Lock]

Is there any regulatory authority on this? I worked for a freight operator that had jumpseater language in the Ops Manual, but at my current operator there is no such language. For myself, I make sure they're listed as a passenger, run through the no-fly list, and don't touch anything.

Which part are you referring to? If he's not a paying pax then it's a 91 leg even if the flight is commissioned by another operator or broker. If you have to go from A to B to fly boxes or customers from B to C and then fly back home to A then the first and third flights are incidental to the mission which is the charter leg (B to C). That means they are 91. This is how many hunting and fishing guides fly their customers out to lodges and camp sites under 91. No one is paying for transportation they are paying for other services. Transportation is incidental.