Logging PIC with Dual flights at UND (a well beaten topic!)

JaceTheAce

JaceTheAce

Well-Known Member
Okay, I have the same issue as Philip did in his October post, so please read before replying:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=21459&highlight=logging+dual

My dad (a flight instructor too) inSISTS that I go back and add in the PIC for my dual flights after receiving my PPL.

First question: Philip, what did you end up doing with this issue re: the post above?

Second question: I have my totals written in pen. Would it be okay to whiteout the "adjustments" I make for the PIC for the first 3 pages that I totaled in pen? (the rest I did in pencil - learned the hard way).
 
I gave up.
decided it wasn't worth the time to re-log it as airlines would understand. Besides I'll never have a "real" job anyway :)

I do not whiteout in my logbook. Strike the totals and re-write them where there is room, but honestly just leave it alone if it's in ink.
I'm surprised records hasn't yelled at you for totalling in ink.
 
Cool thanks for the reply. Yeah, I will just leave it alone I guess. One thing I WILL change is a checkout flight at GFK Flight Support - that was outside of UND so I will add the PIC time in there.

Flight instruction back at home after the receipt of the PPL was shown as me being the PIC...
 
I'm going to say the same thing I did to Philip....think for yourself. This is something you do as PIC in an airplane all the time, why is it different because you're on the ground.

Just because a school says this is how they want you to do something doesn't mean it is necessarily right or correct. If Philip jumped off a bridge, would you? :)

You are entitled to log PIC time for the time you manipulate the controls for an aircraft you're rated in.

Let's say your goals change & you don't go into the airlines; perhaps you go corporate or something. Do you think their HR person is goig to want to comb through your logbook to fix your mistakes?

Part of this whole trip is learning from your mistakes, changing your behaviors. Do you think there is a students' logbook out there without a crossed out line for some reason? Hell, tonight I scratched out a lot of stuff because I had intermingled x-c time over 50 m with 135 point to point.

The point is is that I fixed it so someone else doesn't have to and I did it because I recognized it was accpetable to change (like logging the PIC time you could have).

Your logbook is your logbook, and while we'd all like really pretty ones, that isn't going to happen because we all make mistakes.
 
Philip said:
I'm surprised records hasn't yelled at you for totalling in ink.
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Repeat after me, people: "individual entries in ink, page totals in PENCIL!!!!!"

Jace, your dad is right; all dual received in an aircraft you're already rated in should be logged as dual received and PIC. You're just cheating yourself of PIC time if you don't.
 
aloft said:
Repeat after me, people: "individual entries in ink, page totals in PENCIL!!!!!"

Individual entries in ink...Page totals in PENCIL!? Happy?! I've been doing it for a couple years now all in ink. Do you guys think I'll be able to land a job with Gulfstream Airlines in Florida? ;-)
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I'm still stuck in the old rut. I do entries and page totals in ink.

If (when!) I need to do corrections, I don't go back and change every page total. I simply make a margin note on the page(s) that the error occured about the reason for the correction, and a referral to the date that the correction was made. Then I go to the next open line in the book, and make a one line correction to correct the totals. That leaves all the pages in between with incorrect totals, but so what? Sometimes I'll put a star next to the one-line correction entry to make it easier to find in the future if I think it may be important.

Just my technique...YMMV.
 
JaceTheAce said:
Okay, I have the same issue as Philip did in his October post, so please read before replying:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=21459&highlight=logging+dual

My dad (a flight instructor too) inSISTS that I go back and add in the PIC for my dual flights after receiving my PPL.

First question: Philip, what did you end up doing with this issue re: the post above?

Second question: I have my totals written in pen. Would it be okay to whiteout the "adjustments" I make for the PIC for the first 3 pages that I totaled in pen? (the rest I did in pencil - learned the hard way).
Click to expand...

That's what you get for flying at UND.....j/k! Anyway, I wouldn't mess with the whiteout too much...
 
When I went through training, there were times when I logged PIC and Dual at the same time. About 2000 hours into my career and page after page of totals, I went back and struck all that PIC! I like being able to take PIC+SIC+solo+dual and get the same total that's in the total time column. It sure makes error-tracking easy!

And, if another airline ever takes a look at my logbook, they'll be able to do the same thing without me having to reference December 1991, etc, etc, when I logged PIC and Dual at the same time.

Just my $.02!
 
Pen on everything. Legal documents and all. Black ink, period. If you have an error, cross out, edit, initial. Major adjustment, correction entry noting the change. I'm not expert on the subject, but I did receive a few compliments on my logbook and how it's edited in that manner.
 
Chris_Ford said:
You don't log solo time as PIC? :confused:
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I think I had an instructor one day tell me I couldn't log pre-Private solo as PIC... wrong? I dunno. It's a mere 20 hours out of 6000.
 
SkyWChris said:
I think I had an instructor one day tell me I couldn't log pre-Private solo as PIC... wrong? I dunno. It's a mere 20 hours out of 6000.
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If he told you that before 1997 he was right. If he told you that after 1997, he has to catch up on his reading.
 
SkyWChris said:
I think I had an instructor one day tell me I couldn't log pre-Private solo as PIC... wrong? I dunno. It's a mere 20 hours out of 6000.
Click to expand...


EXACTLY! There is a difference between 'Pilot in Command' time and 'Solo' time. Before you take your Private ride you are not rated in the aircraft - you are simply 'acting as PIC' - big difference between acting as and being PIC. That's the same reason that the Multi ride doesn't get logged as PIC(because you're not rated in the aircraft until after the checkride) - and actually (and I'm going waaaaay back here triing to dust off my MEI braincells) but don't you still have to have a solo endoresement for the multiengine before the ride? And yes, you can legally log both PIC and DUAL on a flight if you're rated in the aircraft.

Now, having said all of that, how much flight time are you guys talking about here?? I went thru a university aviation program (Purdue) so I'm sure that our classes were structured similar to UND's and if I recall I came out of the program with maybe 50 hours of dual that I could have logged as PIC. I know that seems like a significant number to you guys at this stage but it's really not - you guys are stressin' way too much over this.

My Golden Rule of flight time logging is this - "Don't ever log anything in such a manner that you're going to have to defend it in an interview" and anything past that probably doesn't matter. You guys can 'legally' log it either way so do it whichever way YOU would like to. By the time you guys get to an interview where they actually care about your logbook you'll have plenty of time and 50 hours isn't going to matter.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
If he told you that before 1997 he was right. If he told you that after 1997, he has to catch up on his reading.
Click to expand...

....well, this was 1990.... so... draw your own conclusions! :p
 
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