Logging of PIC time.

Texasspilot

Texasspilot

New Member
Alright heres a question for ya'll.

Lets say your hired on with a 135 operation as an SIC in an airplane that doesn't technically require one but in thier opspecs it says they have to have one unless they use an autopilot. Now lets say your qaulified to act as a PIC in the airplane. Can you log your time during the flight as PIC because you are sole manipulater of the controls if the weather is vfr and you meet vfr 135 mins, but do not meet 135 ifr mins.

I had a friend try and tell me about pilot of record vs. pilot in command time or something to that effect. Let me know what you guys think.
 
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Can you log your time during the flight as PIC because you are sole manipulator of the controls if the weather is vfr and you meet vfr 135 mins, but do not meet 135 ifr mins.

[/ QUOTE ]If we're talking about FAA logging of PIC time under 61.51, the =only= thing that is required is that you be the sole manipulator of an aircraft you are rated for. Nothing else matters.

What your friend may have been talking about is what some people call the difference between "Part 1 PIC" and Part 61 PIC."

"Part 61 PIC" is the PIC time that FAR 61.51 allows you to log toward certificate, rating and currency requirements - the sole manipulator rule for example.

"Part 1 PIC" refers to time that you are really and truly acting as the pilot in command - the pilot ultimately responsible for the flight. The FAA could care less about that, but many pilots log it separately as a was of racking their real PIC experience.
 
So they way I read the regs is, so long as its VFR and he's sole manipulater of the controls he can log it PIC. However if its IFR the reg state that no person may act as PIC unless you meet 135 mins so in that case you would have to log SIC.
 
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So they way I read the regs is, so long as its VFR and he's sole manipulater of the controls he can log it PIC. However if its IFR the reg state that no person may act as PIC unless you meet 135 mins so in that case you would have to log SIC.

[/ QUOTE ]Nope, you'd be able to log Part 61 PIC even in IFR. Authority to "log" PIC has =nothing= to do with authority to "act" as PIC. The "ratings" that 61.51 requires is an =aircraft= rating, not an operational rating.

My Rule No 1 of Logging PIC TIme:

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Rule 1. If you are a recreational, private or commercial pilot, you may log PIC any time you are the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft you are rated for. [61.51(e)(3)]

"Rated" means the category and class (and type, if a type rating is necessary for the aircraft) that is listed on the back of your pilot certificate. Nothing else matters. Not instrument ratings. Not endorsements for high performance, complex, or tailwheel aircraft. Not medical currency. Not flight reviews. Not night currency. Nothing. There are no known exceptions
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A separate, but important issue is that if the operation is under Part 135, then a person who is not under that company's 135 letter is not legal to manipulate the controls in the first place, so could not log it. They could log a part 91 leg, such as a positioning flight after a charter. This does not apply to the scenario initially given here, but a worthwhile point to remember.

The other issue here is that if the point is to have hours in the log for a job interview, very few companies consider anything PIC unless it is under Part 1 -- you have to be the one that FAA and the insurance company would consider PIC in the event of an accident/incident.
 
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A separate, but important issue is that if the operation is under Part 135, then a person who is not under that company's 135 letter is not legal to manipulate the controls in the first place,

[/ QUOTE ]True.

Actually you =could= log it since 61.51 doesn't care about qualifications beyond aircraft ratings. But it wouldn't be the brightest thing to write evidence of a Part 135 violation in your logbook!
 
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