Logging Hours

cadbury

cadbury

Well-Known Member
I have question about logging hours.

On the Basis:
1. CFI
2. No FAA BFR. No IR currency.
3. No current airman medical.

However, I have flown outside of United States.

I have been instructing in the flying school (in Southeast-Asia) without working visa (illegally).
How am I going to log those hours?

Is it possible to log as PIC time?
 
The pros can correct me if sim wrong.m, but the way I understand the regs;
61.51
61.56

You can instruct students without a medical and log PIC, but you can only instruct certificated pilots that can act as PIC without a current flight review and then still log the PIC time.

I do not believe your visa status affects it at all. However when proving the time later in an interview there may be questions.
 
ahw01 said:
Not without a current BFR. The Comm cert linked to your CFI must be current. Right?
Click to expand...
Nope. US rule is BFR is only required for acting as pilot in command (it says so). A CFI who is not acting as PIC does not need a current flight review. And a CFI who is acting neither as PIC nor as another required crew member needs neither BFR nor medical.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Nope. US rule is BFR is only required for acting as pilot in command (it says so). A CFI who is not acting as PIC does not need a current flight review. And a CFI who is acting neither as PIC nor as another required crew member needs neither BFR nor medical.
Click to expand...
Correct but someone has to be PIC so you could not instruct a student who solely cannot act as a PIC. Right?
 
@Wardogg
@ahw01

The Chief Instructor (non FAA licenses) of the school assessed me. I did couples of maneuvers and I set to go.
He didn't sign my logbook.

1. Flight training is conducting outside of United States.
2. FAA rules and regs do not apply.
3. I don't have BFR, no valid medical, no IR currency

I am confused. I have been doing flight instruction for months.
On my circumstances, can I still log as PIC?
 
Last edited:
cadbury said:
@Wardogg
@ahw01

The Chief Instructor (non FAA licenses) of the school assessed me. I did couples of maneuvers and I set to go.
He didn't sign my logbook.

1. Flight training is conducting outside of United States.
2. FAA rules and regs do not apply.
3. I don't have BFR, no valid medical, no IR currency

I am confused. I have been doing flight instruction for months. Tons of hours...
On my circumstances, can I still log as PIC?
Click to expand...
I say no. If the FAA rules don’t apply to you then how can you log FAA PIC time?
 
This is why there are blank columns in log books. Keep track of your non-FAA flight time separately. Some employers might take that experience into consideration, you never know. Never try to sell it as something that it is not.

For example, make a column for “Non-FAA PIC” hours. You can define the entries for that column any way that you want to - it’s your logbook after all. Just be very clear with prospective employers exactly what and why you did so.

As an example (working off from memory here so I might screw up the details a bit), I kept two columns for PIC time, as I had been told by the JC hive mind that airlines only accepted PIC time based on being captain on the flight. Part 61 of the regs, though, also allows logging time as “sole manipulator of the controls” (with some caveats). Therefore I logged my PIC time when I was captain as “PIC”, and all of the time that I was flying the plane, but someone else was designated as captain went into a “Part 61 PIC” column. If I were to ever apply to the airlines (never happened) I would use just the total from the regular PIC column, while for other purposes (insurance, some Part 91 or 135 employers, etc.) I could simply add the two columns together. All legal, and made it easy to differentiate as needed.
 
Last edited:
cadbury said:
I did not train them in “N” registered. Students are not seeking FAA license.​
Click to expand...
The the rules about whether you can instruct at all are the rules of the country you are in, not the FAA's.
cadbury said:
1. Flight training is conducting outside of United States.
2. FAA rules and regs do not apply.
3. I don't have BFR, no valid medical, no IR currency

I am confused. I have been doing flight instruction for months.
On my circumstances, can I still log as PIC?
Click to expand...
Under the FAA's logging rules,
A certificated flight instructor may log pilot in command flight time for all flight time while serving as the authorized instructor in an operation if the instructor is rated to act as pilot in command of that aircraft.​

An "authorized instructor" is (among other things)
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate issued under part 61 of this chapter and is in compliance with § 61.197, when conducting ground training or flight training in accordance with the privileges and limitations of his or her flight instructor certificate;​

I don't see a clear answer but I'm going to take a liberal view. Nothing in there says "in the US." 61.51(j) says in part:
Aircraft requirements for logging flight time. For a person to log flight time, the time must be acquired in an aircraft that is identified as an aircraft under § 61.5(b), and is--​
***​
(2) An aircraft of foreign registry with an airworthiness certificate that is approved by the aviation authority of a foreign country that is a Member State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation Organization;​
​
I don't think it's a big jump from there to say that if the aircraft is not US registered, it depends on the rules of the "host" country. If you are authorized to act as an instructor under the host country's rules, I think you are fine logging PIC as an authorized instructor.

Whether the FAA would agree with me is another matter.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
The the rules about whether you can instruct at all are the rules of the country you are in, not the FAA's.

Under the FAA's logging rules,
A certificated flight instructor may log pilot in command flight time for all flight time while serving as the authorized instructor in an operation if the instructor is rated to act as pilot in command of that aircraft.​

An "authorized instructor" is (among other things)
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate issued under part 61 of this chapter and is in compliance with § 61.197, when conducting ground training or flight training in accordance with the privileges and limitations of his or her flight instructor certificate;​

I don't see a clear answer but I'm going to take a liberal view. Nothing in there says "in the US." 61.51(j) says in part:
Aircraft requirements for logging flight time. For a person to log flight time, the time must be acquired in an aircraft that is identified as an aircraft under § 61.5(b), and is--​
***​
(2) An aircraft of foreign registry with an airworthiness certificate that is approved by the aviation authority of a foreign country that is a Member State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation Organization;​
​
I don't think it's a big jump from there to say that if the aircraft is not US registered, it depends on the rules of the "host" country. If you are authorized to act as an instructor under the host country's rules, I think you are fine logging PIC as an authorized instructor.

Whether the FAA would agree with me is another matter.
Click to expand...

And I’m guessing that whether or not he has a visa to work there (see his “illegal” quote) does not come into consideration for logging time(?).
 
SteveC said:
And I’m guessing that whether or not he has a visa to work there (see his “illegal” quote) does not come into consideration for logging time(?).
Click to expand...
It might in the sense that he's not "authorized" in the foreign country, but otherwise, not really. I have fun with the "illegal" scenarios. There's nothing improper from an FAR standpoint in logging PIC in that brand new $1M Cirrus you just stole (so long as you're properly rated), although it's generally considered bad form to write evidence of committing a felony in one's logbook.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
It might in the sense that he's not "authorized" in the foreign country, but otherwise, not really. I have fun with the "illegal" scenarios. There's nothing improper from an FAR standpoint in logging PIC in that brand new $1M Cirrus you just stole (so long as you're properly rated), although it's generally considered bad form to write evidence of committing a felony in one's logbook.
Click to expand...
Personal priorities have entered the chat.
 
I mean most places make you convert. But this is somewhat suss.

We haven’t seen mr Cadbury (the chocolate monk) for a while…
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top