skatergeek
Beet Farmer
Hey I just have a quick question for everyone. How do you log FTD time (Frasca 141/142) time? Do you just put it in the "simulator" column of your logbook, or do you put it in your "total time" column as well? Thanks.
Logging FTD time
- Thread starter skatergeek
- Start date
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
No simulator counts toward total time. Not even a Level D full motion, much less a Frasca... Never log simulator time for TT. You'll have some 'splainin to do.
OP: Unless it's for a certificate or rating, don't even waste your time with it. Think of a sim as a good learning experience and nothing more.
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
Or for currency.
skatergeek
Beet Farmer
Yea, that is what I thought. I heard some people talking about it at my flight school, and I just wanted to make sure I was right. Thanks.
tgrayson
New Member
Not completely accurate. The regulations don't define "Total Time", the closest equivalents are total "Flight Time" or total "Pilot Time". You have to read each regulation carefully to know which sort of time it's asking for. FTD time counts as "Pilot Time", but not as "Flight Time". From 14 CFR 61.1:
(12) Pilot time means that time in which a person -
(i) Serves as a required pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device; or
(iii) Gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.
Blip16
Well-Known Member
yeah, re-read my message, i was sleepy and missed 3 characters from 1 word which completely changed the meaning of my message
tgrayson
New Member
But neither version is in accordance with the regulations.
Blip16
Well-Known Member
thats true. i guess i will just admit i was waaaayyy too tired when i type both of those messages. i was thinking pilot time, not TT, whoops.
ILS37R
Well-Known Member
As a pilot, I log in my Sim/FTD column and in my approach column for anything used towards currency.
As an instructor, I created and use a new column of "Sim Instruction" in lieu of logging it as dual-given. No legal precedent, I just see it as a separate set of skills and activity and thus wanted it parsed out.
As an instructor, I created and use a new column of "Sim Instruction" in lieu of logging it as dual-given. No legal precedent, I just see it as a separate set of skills and activity and thus wanted it parsed out.
tgrayson
New Member
I can't make that call for someone. In the end, the pilot needs to be able to defend what he put where; this is easier to do if you stick with the official definitions. If the pilot isn't willing to assert the existence of Pilot Time and explain it to a skeptical audience, then perhaps he should only put flight time in that column.
However, the FAA 8710 asks for "Pilot time", which includes FTD and simulator time, so it's useful to have a total of this time. For the most part, the first people that will care only about flight time will be the airlines. Subtracting off the FTD time is pretty easy.
FWIW, I log the time in the far right column (when I logged time), and I do so for my students. Hasn't been a problem so far.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but the 8710 asks you to break it down between airplanes, helicopters, some other aircraft categories, and several forms of sim/training devices, so that total might still be of questionable use.
http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8710-1a.pdf
And, if I recall correctly (I'm not looking). except for ATP, all of the certificates and ratings call for total "flight" time and even the ATP requires a total amount of it's "pilot time" requirement to be in aircraft.
It's a bookkeeping issue.
When asked for your total "flight" time, you can choose to have a logbook where you can read the total column and give them a number or you can choose to have a logbook where you have to subtract your sim/ftd number out of it.
When asked for your total "pilot" time, you can choose to have a logbook where you can read the total column and give them a number or you can choose to have a logbook where you have to add your sim/ftd time to it.
My money's on total "flight time" being more generally useful, which may be why it seems most logbook publishers label the column "total duration of =flight="
The ease of adding the totals of two columns together doesn't justify that extra "pilot time" column for me. But YRMV and if you want to, by all means do it.
A word of caution for CFIs. This is your students' choice, not yours. And while primary students will often choose to do what their instructors suggest, when dealing with a pilot who has previously logged time, don't change the correct way she has been doing it into your correct way of doing it.
tgrayson
New Member
I'm skeptical the publishers gave the subject a lot of deep thought, or have any idea of the difference between flight time and pilot time. Regardless, it's my column and it means what I wish it to mean. If someone asks me my "Total Time", I'm giving them "Pilot Time". May as well interpret an imprecise question to my own advantage.