Jonesberuitchamp
Well-Known Member
agreed, so its settled. CFIs don't log dual given in a sim cause its useless
Logging Dual Given ?
- Thread starter Airdale
- Start date
Timbuff10
Well-Known Member
I log it in the student's book as "Ground Trainer" and "Dual Received". Also noting in the remarks the type of approach, and other basic comments about what we did along with a signature to make it legit.
In my logbook I log it as "Dual Given" and in the remarks section the type of approaches and stuff.
If someone wants to know what kind of "Dual Given" experience I have they can see that in my "Dual Given" column. I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to count teaching someone how to do a hold in the sim as opposed to in the air.
If they are looking to see what kind of flying experience I have then they can look at my "Total Time" column.
It may be pointless to do this but no where have I seen it where it says this is wrong. If you need a rating to be able to do it, I don't see the problem in logging it. Besides, I just feel better about it until I find out that I am wrong in doing this.
In my logbook I log it as "Dual Given" and in the remarks section the type of approaches and stuff.
If someone wants to know what kind of "Dual Given" experience I have they can see that in my "Dual Given" column. I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to count teaching someone how to do a hold in the sim as opposed to in the air.
If they are looking to see what kind of flying experience I have then they can look at my "Total Time" column.
It may be pointless to do this but no where have I seen it where it says this is wrong. If you need a rating to be able to do it, I don't see the problem in logging it. Besides, I just feel better about it until I find out that I am wrong in doing this.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
You're not wrong in doing it. The only time you are "wrong" in logging something extra is if you include it in a column where it doesn't belong.Timbuff10 said:
It's hard to be wrong with "dual given" since there is not even one FAR that requires you to keep track of it to begin with. On the other hand, the DPE application asks for flight training given, so, if that's in your future, you may want to have a way of separating the "dual" that is "flight" training from the dual that isn't "flight" training.
Besides, I'm not sure it's really useless. Teaching experience might turn out to be very valuable, even if it doesn't count as flight time.
Jonesberuitchamp
Well-Known Member
If you guys wanted to apply at a different school than your workign at now and the employer asks what is your previous dual given will yuo tell him the total includign sim time?
Timbuff10
Well-Known Member
I have heard of the stories about applying for a DPE position... It is a nightmare anyway you cut it for that job.
As far as a future employer asking how much dual given I have, I would use the figure that included SIM time and flight time. Now if they asked about how much dual given in flight I have, then that would take me a few minutes to subtract my sim time out of it... No biggie though as I doubt that question will ever arise.
If he asked Total time, I only include things that fly.
As far as a future employer asking how much dual given I have, I would use the figure that included SIM time and flight time. Now if they asked about how much dual given in flight I have, then that would take me a few minutes to subtract my sim time out of it... No biggie though as I doubt that question will ever arise.
If he asked Total time, I only include things that fly.
ananoman
New Member
You can do what ever you want with your log book, but I would not give my student 'dual reveived' for sim time in their log book. You should try to make it as easy as possible for them, and this will make filling out 8710's a PITA for the rest of their career. It is a whole lot easier if dual reveived is only used for actual flight training in an airplane. The same goes for airline applications where they don't count dual received or dual given as PIC time. If you log FTD as dual, now you have another variable to contend with. And, I've said it before but in case you missed it, YOU CANNOT LOG TIME IN A SIM/FTD WITHOUT AN INSTRUCTOR PRESENT. So, logging dual received is rather redundant.Timbuff10 said:
ananoman said:
#1 Then you are doing your students a disservice
#2 If you are trying to make it as easy as possible
#3 You say it's redundant so don't log it. Well what happens when your student goes for an interview and:
they look at his logbook
notice there is sim time
and also notice that sim time does not show dual rec'd as well
Now maybr, just maybe,they question why they logged sim time without dual rec'd. To them it may look like an incorrect entry/logbook.
That no longer sounds "as easy as possible" to me.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I don't think not logging it in the dual column causes the problems that you are imagining.JEP said:
There are two entries that can legitimately be made by the pilot receiving sim training that some people just don't make. One is dual received; the other is simulated instrument. Both are absolutely legit but many pilots simple choose to reserve their "dual; received" column for "flight" training received and their simulated instrument column for simulated instrument in "flight," aka "hood" time.
They do it for the same reason as anonoman suggests - it makes it easy to add up the "flight" totals for applications, 8710 or otherwise.
For a lot of pilots, at least until the high level sim stage, "sim time" means FTD or low-level sim and the time is always training and always instrument. It's not that hard to add those totals if needed.
Someone thinking it's an incorrect entry? I doubt it. "I reserve my dual received column for flight instruction and keep my simulated time separate" should be the only explanation required. The only "disservice" to the student would be (a) not logging it at all (b) logging it in the wrong place so that it can be counted for something it shouldn't be counted for, or (c) logging it inconsistently. So long as what you do is clear and consistent, there should be no problem.
Acyually, one more =big= disservice - finding a pilot who has chosen to do it one way and trying to make her change.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
JEP said:
Well I went through a few interviews and can honestly say that NEVER came up. An instructors' signature in the comments section was there to verify it was done as an instructional lesson.
Heck, I even had logged some dual rec'd from checkout flights I had been on with no signature present (I didn't bring my logbook along). My first logbook is held together with thread and tape. It has whiteout throughout and yellow and pink highlights. Guess what? Nobody cared...
If my instructor had logged sim time as dual, in the logbook audit I did a year ago I would have removed it. It's pointless IMO. I want to keep flight time seperate from sim time.