Logging Dual Given?
- Thread starter FOD
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MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
so basically don't log it as "dual given" in your FLIGHT log book. keep a ground log for things like that.
[/ QUOTE ]I don't do it that way, but sure. If you want to. Pilots receive training put it in their regular logbooks even though it's not "flight" time for them either.
I list it in my logbook under dual given; I just don't add it to things like "PIC" and "Total Duration of Flight."
If you do a lot of it, may be worthwhile to create a separate column for segregation and counting purposes. That "pilot" time that's not "flight" time does count for something if you happen to need it:. Check out FAR 61.159, the aeronautical experience requirements for the ATP: "at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot." Of course the breakdown goes into a bunch of "flight" time categories, but for some reason, the FAA decided that teaching in sims as well as receiving instruction in them counts toward the overall ATP time requirements.
(Actually, from an FAR perspective, this is the only reason to keep track of it at all)
so basically don't log it as "dual given" in your FLIGHT log book. keep a ground log for things like that.
[/ QUOTE ]I don't do it that way, but sure. If you want to. Pilots receive training put it in their regular logbooks even though it's not "flight" time for them either.
I list it in my logbook under dual given; I just don't add it to things like "PIC" and "Total Duration of Flight."
If you do a lot of it, may be worthwhile to create a separate column for segregation and counting purposes. That "pilot" time that's not "flight" time does count for something if you happen to need it:. Check out FAR 61.159, the aeronautical experience requirements for the ATP: "at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot." Of course the breakdown goes into a bunch of "flight" time categories, but for some reason, the FAA decided that teaching in sims as well as receiving instruction in them counts toward the overall ATP time requirements.
(Actually, from an FAR perspective, this is the only reason to keep track of it at all)
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I plan on keeping a notebook or separate logbook stating EVERYTHING that I've covered with a student and the dates and hours spent doing it. Then again, I'm paranoid of stupid, frivilous lawsuits thanks to an Aviation Law class....
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As a person who had to tangle with the FAA years after my last hour of dual-given for a student under investigation, the FAA certainly will ask for the information.
I plan on keeping a notebook or separate logbook stating EVERYTHING that I've covered with a student and the dates and hours spent doing it. Then again, I'm paranoid of stupid, frivilous lawsuits thanks to an Aviation Law class....
[/ QUOTE ]
As a person who had to tangle with the FAA years after my last hour of dual-given for a student under investigation, the FAA certainly will ask for the information.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
As a person who had to tangle with the FAA years after my last hour of dual-given for a student under investigation, the FAA certainly will ask for the information.
[/ QUOTE ]
My God, Doug! Is that Nixon bowling?
As a person who had to tangle with the FAA years after my last hour of dual-given for a student under investigation, the FAA certainly will ask for the information.
[/ QUOTE ]
My God, Doug! Is that Nixon bowling?
BrianNC
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As a person who had to tangle with the FAA years after my last hour of dual-given for a student under investigation, the FAA certainly will ask for the information.
[/ QUOTE ]
My God, Doug! Is that Nixon bowling?
[/ QUOTE ]
It took you this long to notice that?
[ QUOTE ]
As a person who had to tangle with the FAA years after my last hour of dual-given for a student under investigation, the FAA certainly will ask for the information.
[/ QUOTE ]
My God, Doug! Is that Nixon bowling?
[/ QUOTE ]
It took you this long to notice that?
doug_or
Well-Known Member
If I'm sitting right seat in a level 6 FTD (performing all the functions I do when giving instruction in an airplane), can I log FTD time? Can I log simmulated inst?
(I don't plan to, and so far only log my DG in FTDs seperately, mainly for the prupose of raises/upgrades).
(I don't plan to, and so far only log my DG in FTDs seperately, mainly for the prupose of raises/upgrades).
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Um, check up on that, I thought you could only log simumlated instrument on a level C or D sim.
[/ QUOTE ] Ok, we'll check up on that. Let's try the universal logging rule and the instrument currency rule.
==============================
61.51(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:
(3) Conditions of flight -
(I) Day or night.
(ii) Actual instrument.
(iii) Simulated instrument conditions in flight, a flight simulator, or a flight training device.
***
61.57(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:
(1) For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument privileges sought -
==============================
Um, check up on that, I thought you could only log simumlated instrument on a level C or D sim.
[/ QUOTE ] Ok, we'll check up on that. Let's try the universal logging rule and the instrument currency rule.
==============================
61.51(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:
(3) Conditions of flight -
(I) Day or night.
(ii) Actual instrument.
(iii) Simulated instrument conditions in flight, a flight simulator, or a flight training device.
***
61.57(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:
(1) For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument privileges sought -
==============================
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
So, how do you log "hood time" in the aircraft? That's more what the regs talk about as "simulated instrument" time.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, Kel, that's what the =logbook manufacturers= talk about as "simulated instrument time." To the regs, hood and sim/ftd are both "simulated instrument time." The only difference is that one is also flight time the other isn't.
I don't do it, but I know people who put them all their simulated instrument flight into the same column. Not t such a big deal. When you fill out an 8710, what's so hard about
simulated instrument time - FTD = simulated instrument flight time.
So, how do you log "hood time" in the aircraft? That's more what the regs talk about as "simulated instrument" time.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, Kel, that's what the =logbook manufacturers= talk about as "simulated instrument time." To the regs, hood and sim/ftd are both "simulated instrument time." The only difference is that one is also flight time the other isn't.
I don't do it, but I know people who put them all their simulated instrument flight into the same column. Not t such a big deal. When you fill out an 8710, what's so hard about
simulated instrument time - FTD = simulated instrument flight time.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
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I don't do it, but I know people who put them all their simulated instrument flight into the same column. Not t such a big deal. When you fill out an 8710, what's so hard about
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True. Although, the 8710 just wants instrument time, not simulated and actual separate. So, I normally wind up doing "Simluated - FTD + actual"
I don't do it, but I know people who put them all their simulated instrument flight into the same column. Not t such a big deal. When you fill out an 8710, what's so hard about
[/ QUOTE ]
True. Although, the 8710 just wants instrument time, not simulated and actual separate. So, I normally wind up doing "Simluated - FTD + actual"
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
True. Although, the 8710 just wants instrument time, not simulated and actual separate. So, I normally wind up doing "Simulated - FTD + actual"
[/ QUOTE ]Good point. From an FAA perspective, we don't even need to separate simulated from actual instrument flight. The use of separate columns for "hood" and "actual" is another of those industry, not FAA, things that made its way into logbooks.
True. Although, the 8710 just wants instrument time, not simulated and actual separate. So, I normally wind up doing "Simulated - FTD + actual"
[/ QUOTE ]Good point. From an FAA perspective, we don't even need to separate simulated from actual instrument flight. The use of separate columns for "hood" and "actual" is another of those industry, not FAA, things that made its way into logbooks.
Snow
'Not a new member'
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, we'll check up on that. Let's try the universal logging rule and the instrument currency rule.
==============================
61.51(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:
(3) Conditions of flight -
(I) Day or night.
(ii) Actual instrument.
(iii) Simulated instrument conditions in flight, a flight simulator, or a flight training device.
***
61.57(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:
(1) For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument privileges sought -
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I guess what I mean't to say was, you can only count 50hrs simulated instrument (in a sim) towards your ATP if it's done in a level C or D sim at a 142 center. I personally don't count any instrument time done in anything less than a C or D sim or in an aircraft. Plus I've heard some employers won't count sim time at all when it comes to meeting their mins.
Ok, we'll check up on that. Let's try the universal logging rule and the instrument currency rule.
==============================
61.51(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:
(3) Conditions of flight -
(I) Day or night.
(ii) Actual instrument.
(iii) Simulated instrument conditions in flight, a flight simulator, or a flight training device.
***
61.57(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:
(1) For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument privileges sought -
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I guess what I mean't to say was, you can only count 50hrs simulated instrument (in a sim) towards your ATP if it's done in a level C or D sim at a 142 center. I personally don't count any instrument time done in anything less than a C or D sim or in an aircraft. Plus I've heard some employers won't count sim time at all when it comes to meeting their mins.
Chris_Ford
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I personally don't count any instrument time done in anything less than a C or D sim or in an aircraft.
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You don't count your instrument time in an aircraft?
I personally don't count any instrument time done in anything less than a C or D sim or in an aircraft.
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't count your instrument time in an aircraft?
Chris_Ford
Well-Known Member
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fine, or less than an aircraft
are you a lawyer or somthing?
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Hahaha that line *really* confused me... but that's probably because it's *SO* early
fine, or less than an aircraft
are you a lawyer or somthing?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hahaha that line *really* confused me... but that's probably because it's *SO* early