Logging actual/night/approaches from a million years ago

[MidlifeFlyer]

I've been doing it by day, not leg. That ok?

Technically, what the Universal Rule of Logging Flight Time (61.51) says is:

...each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged...​

Which really just brings us back to the long-standing FAA position that the "'original point of departure' does not change with a new day or delay." IOW, unless you are being ridiculous, what you consider to be a single flight for logging purposes is pretty much in the eye of the beholder.

Single day logging of multiple legs is pretty common and is, I think, pretty obviously reasonable within both the letter and spirit of the reg.

 

[mastermags]

You're definitely in the know about all of this, but sorry I have to either call BS, or these recruiters are out of their minds. Missing approaches and landings in your logbook is an issue now? Really?

I personally carry a mini flight log that I fill out after each flight, but I just started doing that recently. Who knows how many landings or approaches I never logged because IMO, it's a bit ridiculous to expect to log each and every one of them when you fly for a living. Other than the required amount to remain current, who cares if I did 50, or 150 approaches last year. Am I any better or worse a candidate because I didn't note I did an ILS on leg number 10 of 16 that pairing?

If a recruiter really cares, or questions me about me not logging a few approaches or landings as a professional, full time airline pilot, then I don't really know what to tell them.

Edit: I can understand logging landings/approaches if you're flying long haul and don't get many landings in, or not flying a lot per year and need to actually have a documented record for currency, but for a regional pilot it seems a bit excessive.

I used to get Captains scoff at me when I would log our flight in my logbook. 'I haven't logged any flight time in 15 years,' is a common statement I'd hear. I just told them how I was eventually trying to move on to a better job and wanted acurate flight time logs.

Our entire professional experience is basically on a giant honor system. Is it really that out of question to ask professional pilots to keep accurate flight logs of their experience (especially these days where you can do it on your phone)? Didnt most pilots intend to get a job at a big company some day?

Delta and United (via airline apps) want to know how much time in type of every single airplane you've ever flown. They want to know how many instrument approaches you've done in the last 60 and 180 days. Simulator time. It's all right there on the website and hasn't changed for several years. AA is even worse. Pilots are doing themselves an incredible disservice by being *lazy*.

Btw, maybe @Aero Crew Solutions can confirm this, but I've heard a few regional guys have shown up at a SJI interview with a bunch of those little black flight logs that they sell at the crew store. From what I understand this hasn't gone over very well.

 

[mastermags]

Day 1 from starting your private training or day 1 from starting your airline job?

Day 1.

 

[Aero Crew Solutions]

There have been issues about logbooks at the interview. Remember, before you even come in for the HR part of the interview, the interview team will review all of your required documents.

One document recruiters will look over in detail is your logbook. I can guarantee you kept accurate logbooks when you started flight training or your flying career. The problem is as time goes on, some people will get lazy with their logbooks. As a recruiter, I would ask you why? Why start the interview on a bad note? Why have to defend yourself in the beginning? Your paperwork is an indication of you are as a professional pilot. Your paperwork (logbook) should be flawless. You logbook should be up to date so you are not scrambling when called for the interview.

Do not bring the mini logbooks to the interview.

 

[Freecos]

There have been issues about logbooks at the interview. Remember, before you even come in for the HR part of the interview, the interview team will review all of your required documents.

One document recruiters will look over in detail is your logbook. I can guarantee you kept accurate logbooks when you started flight training or your flying career. The problem is as time goes on, some people will get lazy with their logbooks. As a recruiter, I would ask you why? Why start the interview on a bad note? Why have to defend yourself in the beginning? Your paperwork is an indication of you are as a professional pilot. Your paperwork (logbook) should be flawless. You logbook should be up to date so you are not scrambling when called for the interview.

Do not bring the mini logbooks to the interview.

Thankfully I've transferred every flight to an electronic book.

Say my totals didn't match up ie I make mistakes in my actual logbook. What is an official way to make the correction? Should I transfer the finals numbers on the last page of my last paper logbook with a memo of correction and sign it?

Thanks

 

[Aero Crew Solutions]

Thankfully I've transferred every flight to an electronic book.

Say my totals didn't match up ie I make mistakes in my actual logbook. What is an official way to make the correction? Should I transfer the finals numbers on the last page of my last paper logbook with a memo of correction and sign it?

Thanks

If you need to make a correction, make it a one line entry with the updated numbers. Be prepared to talk about it.

I know some of you might think what I stated about logbooks and other things is nuts but these are the things I hear from recruiters. I want everyone to be successful and whatever tips I receive, I pass them along.

 

[Mark815]

I used to get Captains scoff at me when I would log our flight in my logbook. 'I haven't logged any flight time in 15 years,' is a common statement I'd hear. I just told them how I was eventually trying to move on to a better job and wanted acurate flight time logs.

Our entire professional experience is basically on a giant honor system. Is it really that out of question to ask professional pilots to keep accurate flight logs of their experience (especially these days where you can do it on your phone)? Didnt most pilots intend to get a job at a big company some day?

Delta and United (via airline apps) want to know how much time in type of every single airplane you've ever flown. They want to know how many instrument approaches you've done in the last 60 and 180 days. Simulator time. It's all right there on the website and hasn't changed for several years. AA is even worse. Pilots are doing themselves an incredible disservice by being *lazy*.

Btw, maybe @Aero Crew Solutions can confirm this, but I've heard a few regional guys have shown up at a SJI interview with a bunch of those little black flight logs that they sell at the crew store. From what I understand this hasn't gone over very well.

I'm not advocating sloppiness or laziness, I'm talking lets be realistic. A flawless logbook? I don't know any pilot who has one of those. My first logbook is a MESS. Crossouts, multiple edits until I finally just audited the entire thing on the back cover and signed it. The totals in my current paper log are in pencil.

Flying professionally, again, many of us are doing 800+hrs per year and 4+ leg days. It can be difficult to accurately recall every landing or approach. I also find it funny that 'guestimating' actual IMC is fine, but missing a few landings or approaches makes you lazy.

When I show up for my major airline interview I'll have my printed out electronic logbook neatly bound and ready for viewing, but I'm not going to BS a recruiter and say I've been a perfect pilot and logged each and every one of my landings and approaches for all my recorded flights for them to see.

I'll never be a "I haven't logged in 15yrs" guy because I enjoy looking back and having a record, but again, to call us lazy for not being 100% accurate in every column is unrealistic IMO.

 

[mastermags]

I'm not advocating sloppiness or laziness, I'm talking lets be realistic. A flawless logbook? I don't know any pilot who has one of those. My first logbook is a MESS. Crossouts, multiple edits until I finally just audited the entire thing on the back cover and signed it. The totals in my current paper log are in pencil.

Flying professionally, again, many of us are doing 800+hrs per year and 4+ leg days. It can be difficult to accurately recall every landing or approach. I also find it funny that 'guestimating' actual IMC is fine, but missing a few landings or approaches makes you lazy.

When I show up for my major airline interview I'll have my printed out electronic logbook neatly bound and ready for viewing, but I'm not going to BS a recruiter and say I've been a perfect pilot and logged each and every one of my landings and approaches for all my recorded flights for them to see.

I'll never be a "I haven't logged in 15yrs" guy because I enjoy looking back and having a record, but again, to call us lazy for not being 100% accurate in every column is unrealistic IMO.

Flawless? No. Neat and *mostly correct*? Absolutely.

Its the most basic thing you can do as a respectable pilot is to have a decent professional logbook. I believe the original poster was talking about how to go back and log time after the fact. Try to do it right the first time.

 

[hcaeborev]

This industry is absolutely ludicrous.

These recruiters know what we do for a living. Most of them are pilots. We aren't applying for a pipeline job here. They know what point we are at in our career. As long as it's neat and looks professional the time should be all that counts. It's unrealistic to expect a pilot to remember, or log every single approach they ever fly. I'm on a 5 leg day with a quick turn in freakin ABE 2 hours late and the ILS needs to go into the book? I honestly think this sort of thing leads to more "guessing" than anything else. What good does this do?

Cmon.

Edit: I understand it's the OPs job to critique this sort of thing and am not saying it doesn't happen, just pointing out the craziness of it.

 

[mastermags]

This industry is absolutely ludicrous.

These recruiters know what we do for a living. Most of them are pilots. We aren't applying for a pipeline job here. They know what point we are at in our career. As long as it's neat and looks professional the time should be all that counts. It's unrealistic to expect a pilot to remember, or log every single approach they ever fly. I'm on a 5 leg day with a quick turn in freakin ABE 2 hours late and the ILS needs to go into the book? I honestly think this sort of thing leads to more "guessing" than anything else. What good does this do?

Cmon.

Edit: I understand it's the OPs job to critique this sort of thing and am not saying it doesn't happen, just pointing out the craziness of it.

What a difference a few years makes. In 2012, if you would have told me 'now all the airlines are about a year away from hiring in record numbers. One thing though... Make sure you have a good logbook and that its in good shape and try to get it as accurate as possible.'

'That's ridiculous! Dont they know Ive got more important stuff to do?? A *logbook*??'

Yet, here we are. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that @Trip7 @ClarkGriswold @ian @wildfreightess @Seggy didnt have perfect logbooks, but they looked pretty damn neat and accurate. Or maybe Im just silly.

 

[ClarkGriswold]

What a difference a few years makes. In 2012, if you would have told me 'now all the airlines are about a year away from hiring in record numbers. One thing though... Make sure you have a good logbook and that its in good shape and try to get it as accurate as possible.'

'That's ridiculous! Dont they know Ive got more important stuff to do?? A *logbook*??'

Yet, here we are. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that @Trip7 @ClarkGriswold @ian @wildfreightess @Seggy didnt have perfect logbooks, but they looked pretty damn neat and accurate. Or maybe Im just silly.

Electronic baby. About 10 seconds after each flight. So easy even a caveman can do it.

 

[ian]

Electronic baby. About 10 seconds after each flight. So easy even a caveman can do it.

this

 

[Toobdrvr]

Electronic baby. About 10 seconds after each flight. So easy even a caveman can do it.

Then I get to decide whether I want to spend two months inputting 26 years of flight experience (4 Books), or paying someone two grand to do it...

But look how SHINY!!!

 

[bp]

Then I get to decide whether I want to spend two months inputting 26 years of flight experience (4 Books), or paying someone two grand to do it...

But look how SHINY!!!

It's not so bad if you break it down over a long period of time, a couple pages every night consistently and it will get done. Then when it's finally all together and you start using the electronic log you'll wonder why you waited so long to do this. It is magic.

 

[Toobdrvr]

It's not so bad if you break it down over a long period of time, a couple pages every night consistently and it will get done. Then when it's finally all together and you start using the electronic log you'll wonder why you waited so long to do this. It is magic.

Meh, I'll probably just keep kickin' it oldschool.

"Your logbook tells a story".
"Oh yeah? Well here's some War and Peace for ya!"

 

[ClarkGriswold]

Then I get to decide whether I want to spend two months inputting 26 years of flight experience (4 Books), or paying someone two grand to do it...

But look how SHINY!!!

O I still brought my old paper logbooks to my interview. I didn't start electronic until I started 121 flying, just started it off by making a forwarding entry just like you would with a new paper logbook. Never heard any comments about doing it that way. The only main point is that if you stay up on logging its easy to remember the little tidbits of apchs, etc.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

It's not so bad if you break it down over a long period of time, a couple pages every night consistently and it will get done. Then when it's finally all together and you start using the electronic log you'll wonder why you waited so long to do this. It is magic.

Find a SKW 175 FO on RVS and get them to bid doing it for less. 8). @JordanD @Acrofox