Logging Actual Instrument Time & PIC Time

N

nycronnie23

Well-Known Member
Hey Everyone! I recently flew with my instructor preparing for my instrument checkride in actual instrument conditions can I log that time a PIC? although I do not have my Instrument Rating FAR 61.61e

Thanks
 
Yes as Scott said check out 61.51e.
"(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-
(iv) When the pilot performs the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a qualified pilot in command provided—
(A) The pilot performing the duties of pilot in command holds a commercial or airline transport pilot certificate and aircraft rating that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft being flown, if a class rating is appropriate;
(B) The pilot performing the duties of pilot in command is undergoing an approved pilot in command training program that includes ground and flight training on the following areas of operation—
( 1 ) Preflight preparation;
( 2 ) Preflight procedures;
( 3 ) Takeoff and departure;
( 4 ) In-flight maneuvers;
( 5 ) Instrument procedures;
( 6 ) Landings and approaches to landings;
( 7 ) Normal and abnormal procedures;
( 8 ) Emergency procedures; and
( 9 ) Postflight procedures;
(C) The supervising pilot in command holds—
( 1 ) A commercial pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate, and aircraft rating that is appropriate to the category, class, and type of aircraft being flown, if a class or type rating is required"
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14#14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.31
 
Your CFI needs to understand the difference between logging PIC time and acting as the PIC. You can even log PIC time on a high performance, complex, or tailwheel plane, even if you don't have those endorsements, as long as you are rated in the appropriate category, class, and type. [61.51(e)(i)] - even though you need someone else to act as PIC. There was a clarification letter from the FAA some years back on the difference between logging PIC time and acting as PIC (been a while since I saw it). An example would be you're flying with your buddy in his Bonanza, and you don't have your complex/high performance sign off yet, but he lets you fly a leg. You may log that time as PIC since you have your ASEL license, even though you can't act as PIC, since you don't have your complex/HP endorsement (your buddy would be the acting PIC).
 
The fun part is that if you find yourself in an inadvertent VFR-into-IMC situation, you can technically log that as IFR PIC even without an instrument rating per 61.51. You may not want to, but you can. :)

61.51(g) says "
(g) ​
Logging instrument time. ​
(1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions."​

You don't have to be rated, just operating solely by reference to instruments. You have to be rated to file an IFR flight plan, and you have to file an IFR flight plan to legally operate in less than VFR conditions (without an instructor, of course), but there's always the moonless night over the desert or ocean that people talk about, where you're flying by reference to instruments, but still in VFR conditions.
 
msmspilot said:
The fun part is that if you find yourself in an inadvertent VFR-into-IMC situation, you can technically log that as IFR PIC even without an instrument rating per 61.51. You may not want to, but you can. :)

61.51(g) says "
(g) ​
Logging instrument time. ​
(1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions."​

You don't have to be rated, just operating solely by reference to instruments. You have to be rated to file an IFR flight plan, and you have to file an IFR flight plan to legally operate in less than VFR conditions (without an instructor, of course), but there's always the moonless night over the desert or ocean that people talk about, where you're flying by reference to instruments, but still in VFR conditions.
Click to expand...
So I can log all that time that I.... Wait never mind. Not that I have ever...it's just that a friend of mine was asking....
 
msmspilot said:
The fun part is that if you find yourself in an inadvertent VFR-into-IMC situation, you can technically log that as IFR PIC even without an instrument rating per 61.51. You may not want to, but you can. :)

61.51(g) says "
(g) ​

Logging instrument time. ​

(1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions."​

You don't have to be rated, just operating solely by reference to instruments. You have to be rated to file an IFR flight plan, and you have to file an IFR flight plan to legally operate in less than VFR conditions (without an instructor, of course), but there's always the moonless night over the desert or ocean that people talk about, where you're flying by reference to instruments, but still in VFR conditions.
Click to expand...

I've logged IMC time before I had my instrument rating. Similar scenario I was mentioning before...me and two other guys who owned a 172 together were splitting time going to Oshkosh. Only one of the guys had his instrument rating, and we mostly flew on IFR flight plans, through some (not hard) IMC. Now the shady area would be if we were flying IFR with the instrument rated pilot sitting in the back (we didn't do that - he was always in the front IIRC).
 
You most certainly may do so. There was an instructor at my old school who wouldn't let his students log actual time as PIC. Even after we went through the regulations, he still wouldn't allow it.
 
Chief Captain said:
You most certainly may do so. There was an instructor at my old school who wouldn't let his students log actual time as PIC. Even after we went through the regulations, he still wouldn't allow it.
Click to expand...

It's none of his business what they log, it's their log book. Some instructors need their brains checked.
 
I'll agree with you to a point. In general, you log whatever you want. You're the one who may be called to defend your logbook entries. However, if my signature is going on the line, then it becomes my business- especially so if we're talking about meeting the minimum requirements for a checkride.
 
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