Logbook neatness and airline interviews

[Ian_J]

You should see my Army-helo logbook! When I first went to flight school I didn't know a thing about civil-aviation, logbooks, nothing. And they didn't teach us, either. So after flight school and 200 hours I finally decided to start logging flights with a first entry that summed up my first 200 hours (to the best of my recolection). After that, and without knowing much about logging rules, I happily filled out my whole logbook throughout the years in pencil and have very interesting route of flight entries like, "T-2", "Unknown," "FARP SHELL", and stuff like that from the wars. It is a complete mess from being in the desert, the math is screwy, and I have no idea how much dual recieved, cross country, or instrument approaches I got in flight school!

So I took a weekend and entered the whole mess (6 years worth) into an electronic logbook and keep the paper one as nostalgia.

 

[Van_Hoolio]

Originally Posted by Holding Short
Also, try to land at any airport when out with a student. Log it as X/C.

You will need them for the ATP and 135 min., I think.

This is a big pet peeve of mine. I hate it when instructors say to land at another airport in order to build XC time.

And please don't take this personally, I'm not meaning to jump on you. The reason I hate CFI's doing this is that it potentially wastes the student's time and shows incorrect priorities on the CFI's part. Instructional flights are 100% for the student's sake and 0% for the CFI. There is nothing wrong with landing at other airports, but the XC time should be a side benefit to such activity, not the reason for the activity.

I've known CFIs who have their students land at another airport for no good reason (except for the CFI to build XC time). The students don't need the practice at all. If you add even 0.1 unnecessary hours to the flight, that's at least $10 of the student's money you're wasting.

I don't think there is such a thing as wasted time in the airplane or wasted time with an instructor. If the student pays $10 extra for the flight, is that time not also adding up in their logbook? If the student is pursuing an aviation career, I would think they would also appreciate the airport-to-airport X-C they could add up and use in the future toward meeting their 135 minimums. It's a little bit different of a story if the student is not career-oriented, but the time they pay for still adds up and counts for their certificate.

The extra airport landings help for 135 minimums, but not for ATP minimums. The ATP is a rating, so that requires a 50 nm X-C. There is the exception for the ATP that a landing is not required. That's cool for military pilots and flight instructors who don't get to land at the X-C destination., or who don't want to total up a bunch of landings in their logbook that they give to their students.

The 135 X-C minimums are what can be met with cross country flights less than 50 nm. Of the 500+ hours that I have, over 400 hours were on flights that included a landing at another airport. I don't think I have to worry about 135 X-C minimums.


Mike

 

[wheelsup]

I don't think there is such a thing as wasted time in the airplane or wasted time with an instructor. If the student pays $10 extra for the flight, is that time not also adding up in their logbook? If the student is pursuing an aviation career, I would think they would also appreciate the airport-to-airport X-C they could add up and use in the future toward meeting their 135 minimums. It's a little bit different of a story if the student is not career-oriented, but the time they pay for still adds up and counts for their certificate.

He's not saying it's wasted if the student needs to practice it; but for the instructor to go to a satilite airport just to build 135 xcty time for himself (keep in mind most students learn to fly for fun, not for a career) that time might better be spent doing touch and goes at the local airport. And how many students actually need to fly MORE to meet the requirements? I had to burn off about 4-5 hours of solo time, but I still went above the dual rec'd amount by a few hours, and I can't imagine I was the only one.

I had <100 landings in my logbook at solo time. Had the CFI traveled just .1 each way for the roughly 15 flights I did, that would have equated to over 30 landings LESS that would have been done at the local airport (if I solo'd at the same time, which is doubtful). Quite significant IMO - I most likely would've taken an extra 3 hours to solo x $125 = $375.

Now, going to other airports is important prior to doing xcty's IMO (to practice entering and exiting at different airports), but not for practically every flight. The student can build time on his own without paying ~$50 for a CFI to be there after he/she gets their PPL, IMO.

 

[Van_Hoolio]

Good point. My situation is a little different from many. We pretty much have to go to another airport to buy fuel since Signature's fuel costs about $1.50 - $2.00 more per gallon than it should. Plus, we have to leave the ADIZ to practice all of the manuevers and it's generally a good idea to leave the Class Bravo airport to practice landings. Even with all of the otherwise unnecessary stops at other airports, my student that I signed off still got his private with 46.5 (& bare minimum solo), which I'm sure beats the national average.

Mike