Loading Airways: GNS 430?

n9088d

New Member
Is it possible to load a Victor Airway into the Garmin GNS 430 GPS? Obviously, it's possible to manually enter each fix along the airway. That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if there's a way to enter "V13," for instance and have the GPS load all the fixes along the airway. Thanks!!
 

Blip16

Well-Known Member
Is it possible to load a Victor Airway into the Garmin GNS 430 GPS? Obviously, it's possible to manually enter each fix along the airway. That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if there's a way to enter "V13," for instance and have the GPS load all the fixes along the airway. Thanks!!
not that i am aware of, just load the 2 VOR's that define the leg
 

roundout

Bus Driver
not that i am aware of, just load the 2 VOR's that define the leg
Doesn't work if the airway takes a turn. IMO, the lack of this functionality is the largest shortcoming of the 430/530. It's what separates the 430/530 amateur boxes from the FMS-style 480 pro box. Before anybody flames, yes, I am fully aware that there are many Citations, Learjets, and King Air flying around with GNS430. I still consider it an amateur box for the reason above.
 

n9088d

New Member
Thanks for all your replies. That's what I thought, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Kind of a bummer, but no biggie. I'll just keep manually entering the fixes in FPL. Just lots of knob twisting. People are spoiled (as they should be) now with the ready pad.

I would never use the GSP as primary means of flying an airway. I only use it as secondary nav for enhanced situational awareness. Tracing the magenta line between two VORs isn't the proper way to fly an airway and will take you along a [very] slightly different track. This is most pronounced at or near the COP where the radials that define the airway intersect.

By the way... I've been flying an Archer lately with the Avidyne Entegra glass panel, dual 430s. Does anyone know where I can download [free or not] a manual for the Avidyne Entegra system? I can't take the supplements out of the airplane as it belongs to a flying club. Thanks again.
 

n9088d

New Member
By the way, BuickCFI... is that quote from Air Crashes by Richard L. Collins? I just read that book last week and I think he says that verbatim.
 

aloft

New Member
Doesn't work if the airway takes a turn.
There's a waypoint at every such turn in the Jepp database, so you just have to include it in your route.

It's definitely not as easy to enter a long route in as with a 480, but the point of GPS is to enable direct routing anyway.
 

SuperCubRick

Well-Known Member
I was wondering this myself, had a feeling it wasn't possible to do. It sure is a pain programming in all of the fixes on the airways.
 

Blip16

Well-Known Member
I was wondering this myself, had a feeling it wasn't possible to do. It sure is a pain programming in all of the fixes on the airways.
why are you entering every single fix? just enter the ends and maybe the point in the middle if there is a bend in the airway. if atc asks you to report a fix it should be easy enough to figure based upon distance or just add it to the flight plan.
 

n9088d

New Member
why are you entering every single fix? just enter the ends and maybe the point in the middle if there is a bend in the airway. if atc asks you to report a fix it should be easy enough to figure based upon distance or just add it to the flight plan.
If it's a long route I usually only enter the VORs, then I use DME (actually GPS distance) and/or cross radials to identify fixes as I fly along just for situational awareness. This only works if you have a second VOR indicator though, but any airplane with a 430 most likely has dual VOR indicators. Like I mentioned earlier, the key is just not using the GPS to actually fly the airway -- use the VORs as EVERY airway has at least SOME bend to it (whether it's published on the chart or not), and the GPS will not take you along the bend. Some people realize that flying the bend isn't as efficient as flying the GPS line, and I agree, but it's not a question of which is more efficient (or easier), it's a question of which is proper per the AIM and the way the system was originally designed (before GPS).

Someday VORs will be decommissioned and RNAV (or Q routes) will replace Victor Airways and Jet Routes. Until that time, use the ground stations. That's what they're there for.
 

n9088d

New Member
i think so, i can't remember where i found it
Nice. That's an excellent book. I'm a CFII and will start recommending it to students and all pilots. Some of the info is a bit outdated (the book was writting in '85), but it's still excellent and educational.
 

Air Pirate

Well-Known Member
By the way... I've been flying an Archer lately with the Avidyne Entegra glass panel, dual 430s. Does anyone know where I can download [free or not] a manual for the Avidyne Entegra system? I can't take the supplements out of the airplane as it belongs to a flying club. Thanks again.

I instruct in one and I've never been able to find one. Same for the G1000. Apparently since we're pilots, we have tons of money to throw around. :rolleyes: Let me know if you find one! There is a free simulator though on their website: http://www.avidyne.com/products/entegra/aerosim.asp .

Check 6,
Air Pirate out.
 

Blip16

Well-Known Member
What my instructor wants me to do, like you say I could just enter the first/last points of the leg and any point that the leg may change direction.
you at least do that in the air right? otherwise your instructor is just milking you!
 

SuperCubRick

Well-Known Member
you at least do that in the air right? otherwise your instructor is just milking you!
Do it while taxiing out or holding on the ground waiting for takeoff clearance - he'll taxi out / do the pre-takeoff checks. Sometimes he'll enter them all in for me though, and I'll double check him. He's 62, retired airline guy, so he isn't looking for ways to milk students for $ I don't think, lol.
 

n9088d

New Member
Do it while taxiing out or holding on the ground waiting for takeoff clearance - he'll taxi out / do the pre-takeoff checks. Sometimes he'll enter them all in for me though, and I'll double check him. He's 62, retired airline guy, so he isn't looking for ways to milk students for $ I don't think, lol.
Hmm, doesn't sound like top-notch instruction to me.

SuperCubRick: Victor Airways have a simple design and are easy to understand. They are routes between two VORs. To fly along an airway, first tune the outbound VOR, set the published radial, and fly that radial. Then, halfway between the VORs (the standard COP, or change over point) switch to the inbound VOR and fly the published radial (you'll need to figure the reciprocal of what's on the chart). Every now and then you'll find a published, or nonstandard, COP where VOR service volumes or high terrain don't allow for the standard "halfway" COP.

If your instructor believes the airway will randomly change course between fixes published along the airway, he's incorrect. Fixes in the form of DME fixes or cross-radial fixes are published along the airway after the airway has already been born. They are used as reporting points, holding fixes, etc.

The ONLY time you'll ever need to adjust your course/ground track (and therefore heading) is at the COP. If there happens to be a fix at the COP, it's just a coincidence. Hope this helps.
 

SuperCubRick

Well-Known Member
I'm aware of all of that - I didn't just fall off the back of the ol' turnip truck. :laff:

I think he likes that method because it gives you precise distance and ETA to the next fix in case ATC asks, doesn't make sense if you're in radar contact, they know where you are. I guess it'd be good information to have for position reporting in a non-radar environment.
 
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