LNAV/VNAV

Fred

New Member
Can someone explain what LNAV & VNAV are? I first started seeing these terms with my Jepp Approach kits a while back. Something about vertical and/or lateral guidance down to the runway that is different than your normal approach plate? And you need special equiptment? We have dual garmin 430's, but I don't think we can use this LNAV/VNAV stuff, if I remember correctly from my old CFI.

Thanks,
Sandy
 
LNAV is laternal nav, headings, radials, etc and is basically what the GNS430 gives you. VNAV is more advanced, found on jets. It's neat, you enter the desired altitude at specific fixes and the FMS knows what to do. In the Boeings with autothrottle, it even reduces power to descend, etc. I sat in the jumpseat on a 757 and couldn't believe how cool it was. The FO had more FMS programming to do, but much less work in flight. Watching the thrust levers move back on their own to descend made me envious.

The GNS430 actually does have a single-fix VNAV feature. You can tell it to cross a certain fix at a desired altitude and it will tell you when to descend. You have to enter a lot of info however, and it's not very intuitive.
 
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Watching the thrust levers move back on their own to descend made me envious.

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Just loosen the friction lock and you too can have an autothrottle.
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To extend the question, there are some operators that have deactivated the autothrottle, but still use FLCH and VNAV. What kind of bells and lights go off when the manually-set thrust is not appropriate for the selected mode (e.g. if there is no thrust change to climb from level flight, or if there is no thrust change to descend, but they're already close to VMO/MMO)?
 
With the LNAV/VNAV approaches it is possible to fly GPS approaches to a decision altitude just like an ILS. If you fly a LNAV only approach you level off at MDA and continue on to the missed approach point.

Flying the LNAV/VNAV approach requires some pretty fancy equipment and many of the older FMS equipped aircraft are not certified for it, even though they have VNAV capability.

What the FMS does with barometric VNAV is the same thing you can do in your head when flying a visual approach. With a GPS it is relatively easy to go direct to a runway. If you are visual you know that a 3 degree glideslope is 300' per nautical mile. So if you are 5nm away from the threshold, you should be at 1500' AGL. If you are one mile away, then you should be at 300'.

The FMS uses the aircraft's air data computer (a bunch of sensors and electronics that are used to generate the altitude and airspeed data displayed to the pilots and by the FMS to solve time, fuel, distance problems) and the the position data generated by the GPS sensors to create a pseudo glide slope. This makes it possible to fly an ILS like approach with no ground based navaids. The only problem is that you require an accurate altimeter setting and there can be some rather large errors caused by extreme temperatures. This is why you will almost always see a note on the plate that LNAV/VNAV minimums are not authorized below -15 degrees C. You can check out table 7-2-3 in the AIM to see why.

It is also true that LNAV/VNAV does not always give you lower minimums. There are many approaches where LNAV and LNAV/VNAV minimums are the same or very close to each other. Other times you can go several hundred feet lower using the LNAV/VNAV minimums. It just depends on where the obstacles are on the approach. If you pay attention, you will notice that even if the LNAV/VNAV approach allows you to descend to a lower altitude, they often require a higher visibility than the LNAV only approach. This is due to the fact that the LNAV/VNAV approach is flown to a DECISION ALTITUDE, not a MDA, so you must be able to see the runway from the missed approach point. If your LNAV/VNAV approach allows a DH of 300', you will require about 1 mile of vis. to see the runway from this point. On a LNAV only approach, you may get by with a lower visibility, but risk an unstabilized approach with higher descent rates to make the runway if you see it after passing your visual descent point.

If you are not flying LNAV/VNAV approaches, it is best to just cross out the minimums. It is not uncommon for students to bust the IFR checkride by trying to descend to the lower LNAV/VNAV minimums when they are flying a GPS approach.

If you do fly an aircraft capable of these approaches, the FMS may also contain visual approaches as well. All you do is pick the runway and the length you want your final to be and the FMS will create an ILS like approach that you can fly by following the flight director. Other older FMS units may be capable of the same thing, you just have to do more work to construct the approach. The key to these is that they are for visual use only and should not be used as a substitude for an instrument approach. They do not assure terrain clearance. If you are in mountainous terrain the point you create for a 5 mile final could easily be inside the mountain.

Eventually WAAS will allow us to do all this more accurately and with cheaper equipment, but for now LNAV/VNAV is about as good as it gets without an ILS.
 
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To extend the question, there are some operators that have deactivated the autothrottle, but still use FLCH and VNAV. What kind of bells and lights go off when the manually-set thrust is not appropriate for the selected mode (e.g. if there is no thrust change to climb from level flight, or if there is no thrust change to descend, but they're already close to VMO/MMO)?


[/ QUOTE ] I have not played with an auto throttle yet, but when using VNAV you will usually get a 'snow flake' (it looks a lot like the four pointed 'fly by' waypoint on an RNAV approach plate) that comes down like the vertical CDI on an ILS and a quick double chime from the auto pilot just before it starts a descent.

I have not used VNAV too much in the climb, but in the descent it is up to you to manage airspeed. A good modern autopilot will not break Vmo/Mmo, but this probably depends on the aircraft. What the autopilot does depends on the mode it is in. Most vertical modes should be available with VNAV, so you could end up in VFLC, VVS, VPATH, VPITCH, etc. The most commonly used modes if the box is left to its own devices is probably VFLC for the climb and VPATH for the descent even if they are called something different depending on who made the equipment. In a VFLC climb, if you don't add power you will not climb, so this is a pretty safe way to do things.
 
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To extend the question, there are some operators that have deactivated the autothrottle, but still use FLCH and VNAV. What kind of bells and lights go off when the manually-set thrust is not appropriate for the selected mode (e.g. if there is no thrust change to climb from level flight, or if there is no thrust change to descend, but they're already close to VMO/MMO)?

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In our aircraft, the aircraft will not descend via the VNAV function if you don't reduce the power. The FMS is programmed for a descent at 340IAS/.90M/3.0. Since we are cruising at +/- .90, it will only descend when the power is back. This is where finesse come in. If you don't pull back enough you get a very shallow descent. If you pull it to idle, you will get a very steep rate of descent. We will get a warning message on the FMS if it is not on track and we WILL get an overspeed warning if it goes to fast.

Expanding on what ananoman said: When VNAV is engaged and "captured," all other functions such as VS and FLCH are cancelled. The only functions active are NAV and VNAV. I prefer VNAV in the climb and VS in the descent, while following the VNAV pointer on the PFD.
 
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To extend the question, there are some operators that have deactivated the autothrottle, but still use FLCH and VNAV. What kind of bells and lights go off when the manually-set thrust is not appropriate for the selected mode (e.g. if there is no thrust change to climb from level flight, or if there is no thrust change to descend, but they're already close to VMO/MMO)?

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In our aircraft, the aircraft will not descend via the VNAV function if you don't reduce the power. The FMS is programmed for a descent at 340IAS/.90M/3.0. Since we are cruising at +/- .90, it will only descend when the power is back. This is where finesse come in. If you don't pull back enough you get a very shallow descent. If you pull it to idle, you will get a very steep rate of descent. We will get a warning message on the FMS if it is not on track and we WILL get an overspeed warning if it goes to fast.

Expanding on what ananoman said: When VNAV is engaged and "captured," all other functions such as VS and FLCH are cancelled. The only functions active are NAV and VNAV. I prefer VNAV in the climb and VS in the descent, while following the VNAV pointer on the PFD.

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Same concept in my jet. Also for us, the jet prioritizes airspeed over altitude. So if you punch in a speed reduction, then a descent; the jet will attempt to slow to the speed reduction before commencing the descent. Same with asking it for an acceleration then a climb at the same time.
 
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Can someone explain what LNAV & VNAV are? I first started seeing these terms with my Jepp Approach kits a while back. Something about vertical and/or lateral guidance down to the runway that is different than your normal approach plate? And you need special equiptment? We have dual garmin 430's, but I don't think we can use this LNAV/VNAV stuff, if I remember correctly from my old CFI.

Thanks,
Sandy

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Sandy,

To answer your question a bit more basically, LNAV and VNAV are FMS functions and stand for Lateral and Vertical Navigation. The FMS compiles data and will "fabricate" an approach course laterally and vertically. There is no "hard" electronic signal the aircraft is following (VOR/LOC) etc.

The FMS calculates and "builds" an approach using a variety of data input from INS/GPS/DME/VOR. The FAA will allow certain operators to use VNAV minimums to a DA in lieu of an MDA...you will see this as a ball note on mumerous approach plates.
 
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