Cessnaflyer
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Caravans seem to go down quite often because of ice.
List of planes that aren't good in icing
- Thread starter Mavmb
- Start date
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
Direct-enter-enter
New Member
I have never flown one, but as a ramper, I have knocked a lot of ice off of one, the nose will often yield a nice bowl of ice you can kick around for a bit.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Isn't this thread a little like saying, "let's list the airplanes that might kill you if you crash with them"?
Seriously...let's name aircraft that are GOOD in icing instead, because icing pretty much sucks completely regardless of what kind of aerospace vehicle you're in.
Seriously...let's name aircraft that are GOOD in icing instead, because icing pretty much sucks completely regardless of what kind of aerospace vehicle you're in.
ERfly
Well-Known Member
Well that happens when you fly a square into ice.
:laff:
That's the best thing I've heard all week!
"The Shorts? Isn't that the box the Saab was delivered in?"
Ahh, the poor Shortie. Mercilessly riduculed, arguably the funniest looking airliner ever, yet crews fiercly loved that ugly duckling.
B767Driver
New Member
The Aerostar was bad. The Baron was pretty good. Cessna 310's would have been good if it wasn't for the large tip tanks.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
(sigh) Kids.
The Shorts is the box that the Twin Otter came in! Not the Saab. That joke was born before a lot of you were!
The Shorts is the box that the Twin Otter came in! Not the Saab. That joke was born before a lot of you were!
Well, Eagle didn't fly Twin Otters
And I can only wish I was young enough to qualify as "kid"....
ERfly
Well-Known Member
I remember reading somewhere that WestAir referred to it as the box the Bandits came in.
Mavmb
Well-Known Member
Cruciform? What's that? I haven't heard of that term yet.
Lee D
Well-Known Member
It has been awhile since I read anything about the Eagle ATR crash, but don't they believe they passed through a pocket of some freezing rain? Meaning really big SLD that would have caused trouble on nearly anything?
Regarding Caravans, I have never flown in one, but from speaking with those that have I understand that many of the icing accidents could have been avoided if the pilots had been less careless with their speed control while in the ice. (Meaning too slow for the conditions.)
Speed is your friend in the ice.
Regarding Caravans, I have never flown in one, but from speaking with those that have I understand that many of the icing accidents could have been avoided if the pilots had been less careless with their speed control while in the ice. (Meaning too slow for the conditions.)
Speed is your friend in the ice.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
I'm just trying to figure out who on earth things holding with flaps extended (especially in icing!) is a good idea. I do know the ATR drivers now have to look for a certain pattern of ice formation on the windshield now to recognize the stuff that brought down the Eagle flight.
The CRJ was overall pretty decent in icing, especially if you were at speed. If you spend alot of time in slower manuevering in the icing getting ready for approach, you can feel the tail and stab start getting sluggish. If we were picking up some good ice for a lengthy period on the approach, I would brief on the missed climbing to 10,000 and accelerating to 330 to shed the ice on the tail before diving back in.
The CRJ was overall pretty decent in icing, especially if you were at speed. If you spend alot of time in slower manuevering in the icing getting ready for approach, you can feel the tail and stab start getting sluggish. If we were picking up some good ice for a lengthy period on the approach, I would brief on the missed climbing to 10,000 and accelerating to 330 to shed the ice on the tail before diving back in.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
The CVR from the eagle flight had the crew talking about the dramatic nose-up attitude they were getting at their holding airspeed, and I think they put in the flaps to get the nose down a little. Eagle's ATR training is now *incredibly* detailed and stringent on limitations on icing conditions, speeds, and protection required.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I personally don't remember the CRJ being "pretty decent" in any flight condition -- icing or otherwise. That thing was a piece of junk from the minute you pushed it back from the gate... but that's just my opinion. <grin>
As for the cruciform tail, I flew the Jetstream for around 1500 hours and never really had any problems. In the early 90s the airplane was modified so as to limit flap extension. That fixed 99% of the issues supposedly. Nonetheless we were warned in training that if we ever got what we perceived to be a tail-stall as a result of ice, it would probably happen when selecting full-flaps. Retract flaps to the prior setting and all will be well.
Thankfully I never had to try it!
As for the cruciform tail, I flew the Jetstream for around 1500 hours and never really had any problems. In the early 90s the airplane was modified so as to limit flap extension. That fixed 99% of the issues supposedly. Nonetheless we were warned in training that if we ever got what we perceived to be a tail-stall as a result of ice, it would probably happen when selecting full-flaps. Retract flaps to the prior setting and all will be well.
Thankfully I never had to try it!
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
Case in point......
If the temp is less than 10c DO NOT FLY IN CLOUDS (if your plane is not certified for flight in icing conditions).
The scary thing is that pilots who fly "approved" airplanes know this rule of thumb, and the pilots who don't know it are the ones that should.
This is one of those things that "low time" advocates don't tell/know. Building +/- 2000 hours in the real world prior to going 121 will teach you. Somewhere in those 2000 hours, you have encountered something yourself or heard hundreds of stories from others that teach you what is good and what is BAD. It is not something that can be gained in 50 hours in an RJ sim checking off training squares. Yes even lowly CFIs on cross countries meet corp and freight pilots that they learn things from.
On the Caravan note: I'd like to see data for icing accidents broken out by time frame. I worked for a very large 'van operator in the late '80s and you never heard of icing "accidents." We all knew they were ice magnets, but they still worked fine. For some reason, in the last 10 years or so, people started saying it was dangerous. If there was a problem with the design it would be present from the beginning. The only thing that has changed is the experience level of the people hired to fly them.
By the way, there is a video taken from a Brasilia passenger that shows it rolling following an icing encounter coming back from the Bahamas.
This isn't the video (but it's out there..)
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20010319-0
Here's one that didn't turn out well.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=7&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5