List of planes that aren't good in icing

Mavmb

Mavmb

Well-Known Member
I was just wondering, what airplanes don't do well in icing conditions? I've heard the Cessna Caravan isn't the best in icing. The ATR is supposedly so bad in icing conditions that American Eagle moved all of its ATR's to the Carribbean. I remember the ATR crash in Indiana due to icing as well. Any other planes out there that don't do so well in the ice? Which planes work the best in icing?
 
Most aircraft with a 'cruciform' tail are known to be fairly bad (Jetstream).
 
That American Eagle ATR crash in Indiana scared me more than any other event or story did regarding icing. I completly lost faith in the ATR...I mean what commercial airliner in today's world is built in such a way that it can't operate in an entire part of the world (cold climates)???

One second those guys are sitting up there in a holding pattern shooting the bull and the next thing they know their aircraft is rolling out of control and nose diving into a soy field.

I remember one day back during my Commercial training I was going to go on a solo cross country during an IMC day with the temp at 8C. As I flew into the clouds I just kept remembering the Eagle crash over and over...it freaked me out enough that I cancled my flight plan and asked to return to the airport!

I'm not that nervous about icing anymore and I have flown into the clouds many times under similar conditions. But never the less that ATR crash has left a sour taste in my mouth and I'll be happy if I never have to set foot in one of those planes.
 
embraer07 said:
That American Eagle ATR crash in Indiana scared me more than any other event or story did regarding icing. I completly lost faith in the ATR...I mean what commercial airliner in today's world is built in such a way that it can't operate in an entire part of the world (cold climates)???

One second those guys are sitting up there in a holding pattern shooting the bull and the next thing they know their aircraft is rolling out of control and nose diving into a soy field.

I remember one day back during my Commercial training I was going to go on a solo cross country during an IMC day with the temp at 8C. As I flew into the clouds I just kept remembering the Eagle crash over and over...it freaked me out enough that I cancled my flight plan and asked to return to the airport!

I'm not that nervous about icing anymore and I have flown into the clouds many times under similar conditions. But never the less that ATR crash has left a sour taste in my mouth and I'll be happy if I never have to set foot in one of those planes.
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It's not just the airplane. The crew was holding with the flaps down (15 degrees, I think). At some point during the hold, they retracted the flaps. That was not a good move. The ATR had the boots made bigger to protect more of an area. Most airplanes today have a limitation that you can't hold with flaps extended.

The ATR can operate in cold climates. COEX operated the airplane in and out of EWR and CLE (not sure how long in CLE) until shortly after 9/11, when the decision was made to bring them all to IAH and phase them out.

The accident wasn't entirely the fault of the airplane. I did have some bad characteristics, but it sounds like Eagle's procedures were slightly flawed, too.
 
mikecweb said:
Any plane can be bad in icing with the right(wrong) pilot behind the stick.
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Not only is that true, but it's most often the case.

With an inexperienced pilot, an ice-induced tailplane stall could be the beginning of the end. The recovery procedure from an IITS is completely backward of a wing stall. If you mis-diagnose a tailplane stall for a wing stall and apply the wing stall recovery procedure you will further aggrevate the stall.

With that being said- there is no such thing a "good airplane in icing". If there was we wouldn't have ice protection.

The Beech 1900 has one of the better deice systems of any aircraft and from what I hear it is completely overpowered for its purpose. Still I wouldn't want to fly into ice for the hell of it.
 
embraer07 said:
That American Eagle ATR crash in Indiana scared me more than any other event or story did regarding icing. I completly lost faith in the ATR...I mean what commercial airliner in today's world is built in such a way that it can't operate in an entire part of the world (cold climates)???

One second those guys are sitting up there in a holding pattern shooting the bull and the next thing they know their aircraft is rolling out of control and nose diving into a soy field.

I remember one day back during my Commercial training I was going to go on a solo cross country during an IMC day with the temp at 8C. As I flew into the clouds I just kept remembering the Eagle crash over and over...it freaked me out enough that I cancled my flight plan and asked to return to the airport!

I'm not that nervous about icing anymore and I have flown into the clouds many times under similar conditions. But never the less that ATR crash has left a sour taste in my mouth and I'll be happy if I never have to set foot in one of those planes.
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Personally I have more concerns with Boeing 737s then the ATR.
 
Snuggle said:
The 1900 is a ice machine.
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The Nineteen Hundy was a dream in icing.

That and the original Dash 8, you know the one with the landing gear that functioned correctly, were certainly "Tundra Birds".

The 767 is weird. You put the engines and wings in "AUTO" and largely don't think about it.
 
Well I have flown the ATR since June and have n't encountered any problems so far. The Airframe De-ice boots are supposedly the most tested in the industry to my knowledge. But keep in mind that this in the south and winter is just starting
 
4184 happened on 31OCT94. They got sent south for that winter, but were back up operating in winter til ORD went all jet in 2000. A lot more is known about icing because of that accident, and multiple changes have been made as a result.

If I had to pick a airplane to fly in ice, give me a Shorts anyday. Agents were known to have hammers to knock the ice free from the doors upon arrival.
 
Here is my list of airplanes that aren't good in icing:

ANYTHING THAT ISN'T APPROVED

Don't even get me started on Cirrus airplanes.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
Here is my list of airplanes that aren't good in icing:

ANYTHING THAT ISN'T APPROVED
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Um- yea that. ^^^
Don't even get me started on Cirrus airplanes.
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I know! I cant stand the owners of that thing that brag about how it can take anything. I'm afraid to say, we haven't even seen the beginning of Cirrus ice accidents yet. Think people! Just because Dick Collins' P210 can handle ice, doesn't mean your Cirrus can!

And just because an airplane has de-ice equipment, DOES NOT mean it's certified for flight into icing conditions. Don't take chances with your lives. Please. JC wouldn't be the same without each and every one of you. Even you JTRAIN!
 
MQAAord said:
Is any airliner (or any airplane at all) certified for flight into known severe icing?
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No.
By definition "severe" icing has such a high accumulation rate that it overcomes deice/antice equipment and an immediate deversion is required.
 
The ATR accident did show a weakness in the ATR ice protection system however it was not solely the fault of the design. ANY airplane that is mismanaged in icing conditions can be dangerous. FWIW.. I have a thousand hours flying the ATR-42-300 in and out of JFK, BOS and DCA in the dead of winter.... I would fly one tomorrow.
 
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