Liquid explosive screening devices arriving at the airports, October

[mpenguin1]

US anti-terror agency issues calls for liquid explosive bottle scanners, with September deadline for successful device
By Justin Wastnage
The leading US anti-terrorism agency has launched an urgent call for liquid explosive screening devices that could be selected for use in US airports by October.

The call for tender for bottle screening devices capable of detecting explosives was raised in light of the foiled terror plot to blow up around 10 transatlantic airliners originating in London this month that security services believe would have used bombs using volatile fluids.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Article...bottle+scanners,+with+September+deadline.html

 

[surreal1221]

This is better, but why weren't they crying for this before the "incident?"

Hope they figure this out so I can take my darn water bottle with me on my trip to Hawaii in December.

 

[mpenguin1]

This is better, but why weren't they crying for this before the "incident?"

Hope they figure this out so I can take my darn water bottle with me on my trip to Hawaii in December.

Threat wasn't serious, as the material for making the mixtures were very hard if not impossible to get, after the London threat, things changed.....

 

[tonyw]

Threat wasn't serious, as the material for making the mixtures were very hard if not impossible to get, after the London threat, things changed.....

You're my boy, blue, but you're just wrong on this one.

They successfully detonated one of these devices back in the late 90s. It killed a Japanese businessman and injured several other people, and the plane was forced to make an emergency landing in Okinawa.

It was wrong then to not start putting explosive detection systems into airports.

And it was even more wrong for the department of homeland (in)security to not do so for FIVE FREAKING YEARS after September 11.

It's even more wrong when for FIVE FREAKING YEARS companies ranging from small startups to huge companies like GE and L-3 were chomping at the bit to sell these to airports.

As for this deadline, I'll believe it when I see it. It's nearly September, and guess what hasn't happened? We haven't seen hide nor hair of the trusted traveller program which was supposed to have been rolled out in June. And before that it was supposed to have been ready by the end of last year, and then last June and so on, and so on.

Hell, man, FIVE FREAKING YEARS after September 11 and we don't even have a good no fly list.

 

[surreal1221]

Threat wasn't serious, as the material for making the mixtures were very hard if not impossible to get, after the London threat, things changed.....

Which is my point.

We are not focusing on the real threats. Instead we focus on the conventional tools, and ignore the ones that are less suspecting. We won't ever win (if winning is possible. . .I believe it not to be) if we don't focus on ALL potential threats, not just the one's that we know have worked in the past (airplanes as missles, bombs on planes, bombs on trains, gasing subways, etc.).

 

[mpenguin1]

You're my boy, blue, but you're just wrong on this one.

They successfully detonated one of these devices back in the late 90s. It killed a Japanese businessman and injured several other people, and the plane was forced to make an emergency landing in Okinawa.

.

Tony

I never said that it was impossible, I just said the materials were hard to get.

The Industrial strength Peroxides were not sold by many companies & they were careful as to who they sold it to, normally large companies.

Other threats could be to make a dirty bomb out of nuclear material, not impossible to get, but, very difficult, I guess they could install geiger counters at airports as well.

We are just taking the hindsight approach, rememer, hindsight is always 20/20...

 

[mpenguin1]

Which is my point.

We are not focusing on the real threats. Instead we focus on the conventional tools, and ignore the ones that are less suspecting. We won't ever win (if winning is possible. . .I believe it not to be) if we don't focus on ALL potential threats, not just the one's that we know have worked in the past (airplanes as missles, bombs on planes, bombs on trains, gasing subways, etc.).

I remember correctly, the attack was stopped with using all available means, the U.S. picked up the suspects' chatter and shared it with British authorities, 25 potential terrorist are in jail, with additional people connected to the attack under lock & key in Pakistan.

Talk about the Modern World, 3 foreign intelligence agencies sharing information with each other.

Now, the Brits did not have any sort of Liquid Explosive Screening device.

 

[av8sean]

I'm sure you can decompress with a bottle of hairspray and a lighter... hold it up against the window, light'er up, and boom! Does this mean people can't bring hairspray? The list goes on and on...

 

[surreal1221]

I remember correctly, the attack was stopped with using all available means, the U.S. picked up the suspects' chatter and shared it with British authorities, 25 potential terrorist are in jail, with additional people connected to the attack under lock & key in Pakistan.

Talk about the Modern World, 3 foreign intelligence agencies sharing information with each other.

Now, the Brits did not have any sort of Liquid Explosive Screening device.

Actually your information is a bit flawed.

The Pakistani alerted the Brits, who in turn alerted us here in the states.

Let's not try to take responsibilty to look like saviors.

 

[mpenguin1]

Actually your information is a bit flawed.

The Pakistani alerted the Brits, who in turn alerted us here in the states.

Let's not try to take responsibilty to look like saviors.

Well, my point was 3 countries was sharing with each other, which is a more effective means of a defense, when those animals arrived at the airport, the Brits knew about it.... The attempted terrorist attack that was stopped is a good thing.....

But talking about twisting words, you make Pakistan seem like that savior, now, I am not sure who went first

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14292854/

“They are British nationals. They were arrested 8 to 10 days ago. One from Karachi and one from Lahore,” the official said on condition of anonymity.

Pakistan said the plot was thwarted after active coordination between Pakistani, British and U.S. intelligence agencies, leading to the arrest of 24 people in Britain.

“In fact, Pakistan played a very important role in uncovering and breaking this international terrorist network,” Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.

British police arrested 24 people Thursday, saying they were confident that they had captured the main suspects in what U.S. officials said was a plot in its final phases that had all the earmarks of an al-Qaida operation.

 

[surreal1221]

In no way am I painting Pakistan out as the savior. Yes, it was a combined effort. . . primarily between the Brits and Pakistani's, with the US coming in AFTER (as far as the public knows) the arrests. Of course our government won't ever give any details if they were involved before hand, it would be counter productive to their objective.

Pakistan, certainly, should not get a "get out of Jail free card." They still are harboring UBL. I still can't understand why they are keeping him safe in the NE mountains. . . but, whatever. They enjoy playing both sides of the card.

The one thing this administration can do to build any sort of credibility up, is to catch the prick. We've been at it for over a decade now, and have failed. Yet we have put a man on the moon, a much more significant achievement than finding one person.

Nevertheless, my opinion, it would be counter productive to the current administration to actually catch him. Take that for what you wish, it makes me sick.

 

[tonyw]

I never said that it was impossible, I just said the materials were hard to get.

How hard was it to get if they were mixing those chemicals in sinks in Indonesia and blowing up Japanese businessmen?

We should have rolled out explosive detection systems back then. It was a mistake to not have those in place. If we did, no shoe bomber and no taking off our shoes.

But it is the ultimate in irresponsibility and incompetence to not have those systems in place FIVE FREAKING YEARS after September 11 when you've had companies big and small begging the department of homeland (in)security to come up with a standard so they can start selling those devices.

If someone blows up an airplane, Michael Jerkoff and Krap Hawley have blood on their hands.

 

[wheelsup]

We won't ever win (if winning is possible. . .I believe it not to be) if we don't focus on ALL potential threats, not just the one's that we know have worked in the past (airplanes as missles, bombs on planes, bombs on trains, gasing subways, etc.).

we won't ever win because the government will continue to use the terror excuse to monitor its citizens. this 'war' has nothing to do with terrorists anymore it seems.

if it did, they wouldn't be taking lighters at security but allowing 4 books of matches.

 

[mpenguin1]

How hard was it to get if they were mixing those chemicals in sinks in Indonesia and blowing up Japanese businessmen?

We should have rolled out explosive detection systems back then. It was a mistake to not have those in place. If we did, no shoe bomber and no taking off our shoes.

But it is the ultimate in irresponsibility and incompetence to not have those systems in place FIVE FREAKING YEARS after September 11 when you've had companies big and small begging the department of homeland (in)security to come up with a standard so they can start selling those devices.

If someone blows up an airplane, Michael Jerkoff and Krap Hawley have blood on their hands.

Tony

Are you talking about the Sarin gas attack in Japan? If so, that took place back in 1995, it was also a different type of chemical causing a different reaction..... Poison gas vs a big boom. The Ohm religious group was worth millions of dollars, was no surprise that they were able to pull this off.

Technology, the technology was not available to test for all types of liquid explosives, which basically is making a cocktail of inert/harmless mixtures and turning it into something new, so, the scanner would have to test for all possible combinations without taking a sample.

Something else to consider, let's assume that they had the super-duper Screening devices for liquid explosives at Heathrow airport, they would have never caught the potential terrorist, they were not in possession of the explosive.

Intelligence is what saved the day, having these screening devices in place, is a last resort to catch these people.

 

[kellwolf]

Sorry, but "those materials are hard to get," to me, is not a valid excuse NOT to be screening for them. Nuclear weapons are fairly hard to get, yet one of the biggest concerns is a terrorist group getting them. In nearly the same breath, we hear "The terrorists are resourceful with large amounts of finances at their disposal" followed by "Well, we don't screen for that b/c the materials are hard to get." Wha?!?

I'd be ecstatic to see something in the airports that could actually detect something that could blow me out of the sky rather than just take things away from people. I'd like to see the DHS taking a pro-active role instead of just reacting to the terrorist plot of the week. BTW, are they taking water bottles, make-up, etc from people on Amtrak or the subway? Seems like a bit of a loophole, if you ask me.....

 

[tonyw]

Are you talking about the Sarin gas attack in Japan? If so, that took place back in 1995, it was also a different type of chemical causing a different reaction

No, I am not. There was a plane that had to perform an emergency landing in Okinawa after someone successfully exploded one of these devices. This took place in the 1990s. A Japanese businessman was blown out of the plane and died.

An Indonesian man was able to put together these explosives easily and the only reason he got caught was because he dumped some of the explosives he mixed down the sink.

Besides, that doesn't change the fact that you've had many companies begging Krap Hawley and Michael Jerkoff and their predecessors to come up with standards for explosive detection systems for FIVE FREAKING YEARS!

If a terrorist does get a bomb on a plane, Krap Hawley and Michael Jerkoff have blood on their hands. It's nothing new for Jerkoff.

After all, he is the man who went on national TV and said, we only found out the levies had breached tonight despite the fact that the very network he appeared on had been broadcasting it for days.

The incompetence of Jerkoff is amazing. I think that's what he did during Katrina -- jerked off.

 

[surreal1221]

Sorry, but "those materials are hard to get," to me, is not a valid excuse NOT to be screening for them. Nuclear weapons are fairly hard to get, yet one of the biggest concerns is a terrorist group getting them. In nearly the same breath, we hear "The terrorists are resourceful with large amounts of finances at their disposal" followed by "Well, we don't screen for that b/c the materials are hard to get." Wha?!?

I'd be ecstatic to see something in the airports that could actually detect something that could blow me out of the sky rather than just take things away from people. I'd like to see the DHS taking a pro-active role instead of just reacting to the terrorist plot of the week. BTW, are they taking water bottles, make-up, etc from people on Amtrak or the subway? Seems like a bit of a loophole, if you ask me.....

Why would they take things away from Amtrak, Greyhound, or subway riders? Those industries make very little compared to the aviation industry. The government wants more and more control over the aviation industry, and the security that is provided. It's all a joke.

 

[kellwolf]

I think it's more of a "well, they used airplane on 9/11" deal with the government. Nevermind the subway incident in Spain, which, last time I heard, Al Queda was taking credit for. It's a reactionary thing. If/when something happens with Amtrak or the subway, THEN the TSA will show up there.

 

[mpenguin1]

If a terrorist does get a bomb on a plane, Krap Hawley and Michael Jerkoff have blood on their hands. It's nothing new for Jerkoff.

After all, he is the man who went on national TV and said, we only found out the levies had breached tonight despite the fact that the very network he appeared on had been broadcasting it for days.

The incompetence of Jerkoff is amazing. I think that's what he did during Katrina -- jerked off.

The Terrorist attack was stopped, so, it could be said that everybody was doing their jobs.

As for Katrina, as long as you long as you Mayor 'School Bus" Nagin to the list of people that failed at their jobs, as well as the worthless Governor, you will not have an argument from me.....

 

[tonyw]

The Terrorist attack was stopped, so, it could be said that everybody was doing their jobs.

Jerkoff wouldn't know security or competence if it jumped up and bit him in his incompetent ass.

If you can seriously tell me that you think it's okay that the department of homeland (in)security hasn't come up with an explosive detection standard for FIVE FREAKING YEARS you've got a different standard for competence than I do.