Life At Spirit, anyone?

The Juice said:
What? To work as a ground instructor?
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Yea, why not? I was just talking with a buddy who is a few above me at Eagle who is thinking about apply for the job. We have no hope of upgrade and Spirit will not even talk to guys without TPIC. He lives in FLL and really wants to work for Spirit.
 
@The Juice @woodreau Thank you both for the info, I could definitely see how "cutting the line" per say and not having prior 121 experience could cause friction both in the classroom and out on the line. I'm not necessarily looking for a shortcut, but trying to get as much information I can about the industry, still have a good amount of time left in college so who knows what will happen in the industry by the time I can even apply!
 
Gonzo said:
Yea, why not? I was just talking with a buddy who is a few above me at Eagle who is thinking about apply for the job. We have no hope of upgrade and Spirit will not even talk to guys without TPIC. He lives in FLL and really wants to work for Spirit.
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I dont know what the pay is for the instructor job but im willing to bet it is low, lower than a 5 year regional FO.

I have no idea how the training department will entertain hiring regional pilots as ground instructors. I guess apply and see what they say
 
Max1594 said:
@The Juice @woodreau Thank you both for the info, I could definitely see how "cutting the line" per say and not having prior 121 experience could cause friction both in the classroom and out on the line. I'm not necessarily looking for a shortcut, but trying to get as much information I can about the industry, still have a good amount of time left in college so who knows what will happen in the industry by the time I can even apply!
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You have a lot of time left to make decisions. The instructor position may be a crap job in 2 years anyways. If growth stops at Spirit with out current fleet plan, you're looking at 4 years before you even are at the bottom of the seniority list. Our growth spurt may be over by then and you would be looking at a long long long time as a FO.
 
The Juice said:
You will not find many pilots in favor of this program. You will be seen by many as someone who "cut the line" and didnt "pay their dues."
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Not this line of BS again. GMAB sir. Cut the line and didn't pay your dues? That is so very subjective that it's not credible in an argument.
 
Max1594 said:
@The Juice @woodreau Thank you both for the info, I could definitely see how "cutting the line" per say and not having prior 121 experience could cause friction both in the classroom and out on the line. I'm not necessarily looking for a shortcut, but trying to get as much information I can about the industry, still have a good amount of time left in college so who knows what will happen in the industry by the time I can even apply!
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In the end, that's not your problem. I don't know much about this instructor program so I can't say anything about it. But if a shortcut does present itself that could be beneficial to you, then it very well could be in your best interest to take it. This is a seniority driven system. All arguments about "taking a shortcut" and/or "paying your dues" are just BS from people who have "made it" and now feeling they can tell you that you haven't earned the right yet to join their ranking.
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Not this line of BS again. GMAB sir. Cut the line and didn't pay your dues? That is so very subjective that it's not credible in an argument.
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I would expect noting less from you at your non union airline, sucking off the teet of union dues payers at other airlines.

What it is and what it will pre perceived as by some are different. Nonetheless, don't want to hear your thoughts on this.
 
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The Juice said:
I would expect noting less from you at your non union airline, sucking off the teet of union dues payers at other airlines.
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Really? That's the best you come up with? What exactly has my airline sucked off since 2007 from ALPA? Oh that's right, the hundreds of ALPA furloughees from Aloha, ATA, Champion, Comair...

What I wait it is and what it will pre perceived as are different. Nonetheless, don't want to hear your thoughts on this.
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That doesn't even make any grammatical sense. Let me put it this way, say pilot #1 was hired at my current airline in Jan 2012. Currently this pilot will not be upgrading until 2020-2021. Now say pilot #2 was hired at Spirit in Jan 2012. Most likely, he would be upgrading later this year, in less than 3 years total. So, did pilot #2 really "pay his dues?" :rolleyes: What difference is there in pilot #1 and #2 asides from getting a different phone call for the same kind of job in the same plane?

"Paying your dues" and "shortcut" are asinine terms in this day/age. Everyone fell under different circumstances beyond their control.

Guys hired at regional airlines in 2002-2006 experienced the rapid growth and advancement made possible by the post-9/11 regional-expansion era. Captains in less than two years. Those hired in 2007 and onwards were hit with Age 65 and then the recession. Given the same time frame from the guys hired in 2002-2006, these 2007-onward guys had far less stellar qualifications on the resume simply for starting just a couple years later. It's not like RJ FOs were/are just sitting around too lazy to upgrade. The opportunity just didn't present itself. And yet, there are still pilots who feel that these guys "didn't pay their dues!"
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Really? That's the best you come up with? What exactly has my airline sucked off since 2007 from ALPA? Oh that's right, the hundreds of ALPA furloughees from Aloha, ATA, Champion, Comair...


That doesn't even make any grammatical sense. Let me put it this way, say pilot #1 was hired at my current airline in Jan 2012. Currently this pilot will not be upgrading until 2020-2021. Now say pilot #2 was hired at Spirit in Jan 2012. Most likely, he would be upgrading later this year, in less than 3 years total. So, did pilot #2 really "pay his dues?" :rolleyes: What difference is there in pilot #1 and #2 asides from getting a different phone call for the same kind of job in the same plane?

"Paying your dues" and "shortcut" are asinine terms in this day/age. Everyone fell under different circumstances beyond their control.

Guys hired at regional airlines in 2002-2006 experienced the rapid growth and advancement made possible by the post-9/11 regional-expansion era. Captains in less than two years. Those hired in 2007 and onwards were hit with Age 65 and then the recession. Given the same time frame from the guys hired in 2002-2006, these 2007-onward guys had far less stellar qualifications on the resume simply for starting just a couple years later. It's not like RJ FOs were/are just sitting around too lazy to upgrade. The opportunity just didn't present itself. And yet, there are still pilots who feel that these guys "didn't pay their dues!"
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You're rambling. This has NOTHING to do wth RJ pilots and "paying their dues". You are in such a hurry to make this an RJ FO issue that you have forgotten the original point.

This is about the instructor program at Spirit which hires CFIs, not RJ FOs (as of this date). So all of your crap about RJ FOs and "paying their dues" is irrelevant.

I'm telling you how it will be perceived, as by many, when these instructors find their way into the right seat of an Airbus without having any 121/135 airline experience and less the 4000 hours that 95% of pilots had when hired at Spirit. Right or wrong, this is how some/many will feel.
 
Well. This hasn't gone the way I hoped...I'm on the outside of 121, looking in, so I wouldn't pontificate on the content of page 3. Since I'm on the outside looking in, I was trying to get a good latest and greatest thread going on JC for Spirit given their hiring and growth trends. So in the "spirit" of getting the train back on the rails, has anybody been recently hired or recently gotten through a class?
Could anybody expand upon how these job fairs go and what to expect? Are they "mini" interviews, or is it a gaggle of mingling?
Cheers
 
The Juice said:
You're rambling. This has NOTHING to do wth RJ pilots and "paying their dues". You are in such a hurry to make this an RJ FO issue that you have forgotten the original point.

This is about the instructor program at Spirit which hires CFIs, not RJ FOs (as of this date). So all of your crap about RJ FOs and "paying their dues" is irrelevant.

I'm telling you how it will be perceived, as by many, when these instructors find their way into the right seat of an Airbus without having any 121/135 airline experience and less the 4000 hours that 95% of pilots had when hired at Spirit. Right or wrong, this is how some/many will feel.
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I understand, but to be fair keep in mind the rest of the world does that too. They put 250 hr pilots into Airbus and Boeing, and not all of them as cruise second officers. Some start right away as a 737 or A320 FO. It all boils down to screening, selection, and then training. Many foreign airlines have perfected this art and getting selected for this slot is akin to making it through selection/screening of a fighter pilot position in the Air Force. Only in the United States do we have a career process that is so B-scale low wages at regionals in order to make it to a major. For a large part of the world, that concept does not exist. There are no regional airlines and that model for career advancement doesn't exist.


bucksmith said:
Well. This hasn't gone the way I hoped...I'm on the outside of 121, looking in, so I wouldn't pontificate on the content of page 3. Since I'm on the outside looking in, I was trying to get a good latest and greatest thread going on JC for Spirit given their hiring and growth trends. So in the "spirit" of getting the train back on the rails, has anybody been recently hired or recently gotten through a class?
Could anybody expand upon how these job fairs go and what to expect? Are they "mini" interviews, or is it a gaggle of mingling?
Cheers
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To get back on thread, when I went to a Spirit job fair in 2011, it didn't seem like a mini-interview. There was a flight ops booth set up and it was more of a meet-n-greet. It was extremely busy with about 250 pilots that showed up so face time was very limited.
 
bucksmith said:
...or is it a gaggle of mingling?Cheers
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I wouldn't say it's gaggle of mingling - look at it as another opportunity to network with other pilots. The job fair if you do end up going is an excellent place to meet other regional, military, corporate, fractional pilots that are attending the job fair to get on with Kalitta, Spirit or Allegiant, Air National Guard, or the plethora of regional airlines. Although the tables for the regional airlines were wide open with the recruiters from the different regionals all talking to each other as no one was there to see them. So if you were a CFI looking to get on with a regional, you don't have much competition right now.
 
woodreau said:
I wouldn't say it's gaggle of mingling - look at it as another opportunity to network with other pilots. The job fair if you do end up going is an excellent place to meet other regional, military, corporate, fractional pilots that are attending the job fair to get on with Kalitta, Spirit or Allegiant, Air National Guard, or the plethora of regional airlines. Although the tables for the regional airlines were wide open with the recruiters from the different regionals all talking to each other as no one was there to see them. So if you were a CFI looking to get on with a regional, you don't have much competition right now.
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Yeah, the flight school I still teach part time at actually had a recruiter come through looking for somebody who wanted a job! I think they were from ExpressJet, he even put up a flyer..The great pilot shortage is indeed upon us, but that doesn't mean Delta will be knocking on my door anytime soon, or first year pay at the regionals will be enough to pay the mortgage AND eat.. I think we are going to see some ugly consolidation at the regional level...
We'll see...
 
Cutting the line? I disagree. This is a competitive industry. If someone has the ability to leapfrog others by taking an instructors job...
more power to them!

This is ultimately about you and your family. If those junior to you are upset.. tough.
 
Alright, I'll bite. It's late, been hanging out in the coldasac with the homey's...
If I was a collegiate instructor with the scope to be able to think about the next 5 years, this would look great. Currently my job primarily involves training folks to fly our a/c for our sister company overseas to make great money and have lots of time off. We also do charter (on our 135 cert) and fly a bit of corporate. We also provide contract flying to flight departments that run recurrent training through us...(commercial?)...SO, primarily, I work in the "training" department.
If I was the master of the universe and ran the universe airline, I would be stoked about serving the "kool aide" to hungry young bucks who demonstrated an aptitude for aviation at a entry level position and then spent 2 years at an entry level position at my Universe Airline, mastering the theory of the a/c and 121 standards and norms, and then spent 4 years (at least) flying right seat for the salty dogs that made up my airline, only to serve as wonderful Captains that went out and sang the praise of our wonderful airline...Then, I think it's a great idea.
If my preceding fantasy is not what you expect or are getting, then disregard my post. Like I've said in previous posts, I'm on the outside of 121 looking in, so I'm sorry if I'm speaking without knowing the reality of the situation...
But if you like to be an idealist while posting on the internet, like me, OOH-Rahh- and get over the thoughts of these guys "cutting in line"
I've been hanging out at my awesome job for a few years now while my peers were flying at the regionals and living in their moms basement and drinking PBR. They are crushing me in total time and turbine time, but I'm building a vast experience. If I were able to get a job at spirit next year or anywhere else, would you say I cut the line because I took a job that gives me 300 hours a year with no 121 experience but a boat load of "other" experience? If I decided to join the 121 world, I would exploit whatever advantage I could, respect and learn from all that came before me, no matter the path the person sitting next me took and respect them based on my impressions and their reputation and not necessarily how they got to the seat.
(how many rants are we allowed a year? Just want to make sure I have a few left for future use...)
 
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