Lids

[Nark]

On the spiky hair deal: my girlfriend asked why I have gel in my hair.
Me: I'm a pilot.
Her: I've dated other pilots and they didn't gel their hair!
Me: Airline pilot babe, airline.

It was first and last time I brought a JC joke in to my personal life.

 

[MikeD]

Today, we look like a bunch of slackers. Spiked hair, iPod earbuds in ears, black sneakers instead of dress shoes, top buttons undone and ties hanging down, shirts that should have been thrown out ten years ago they're so worn out, etc. It's pathetic.

Even at mainline? I mean, Ive seen younger pilots that way who are generally at regionals, but I don't know if I've seen the sneakers/ipod/spiked hair at mainline. Granted, I don't ride on 121 daily or even weekly, so it could be limited exposure on my part to airports and the like.

 

[dasleben]

A quote from a system chief pilot at a very large major airline who shall remain nameless: "The worst thing we ever did for uniform standards was making the hat optional. As soon as that happened, everyone got the idea that they could get away with other things, too. Black sneakers, black dockers, unpressed shirts, whatever."

He was right. Take a look around you in the crew lounge next time you're there, and then think back to when you were a kid, looking up at those pilots with their neatly pressed uniforms, and yes, the hat. They looked like consumate professionals. They inspired confidence. Today, we look like a bunch of slackers. Spiked hair, iPod earbuds in ears, black sneakers instead of dress shoes, top buttons undone and ties hanging down, shirts that should have been thrown out ten years ago they're so worn out, etc. It's pathetic.

Should also mention that if you're regularly flying in and out of military bases, they don't normally take too kindly to people wearing hats (er, covers) on the flight line. Not wearing hats may make us look less professional to some, but it serves a purpose.

 

[MikeD]

Should also mention that if you're regularly flying in and out of military bases, they don't normally take too kindly to people wearing hats (er, covers) on the flight line. Not wearing hats may make us look less professional to some, but it serves a purpose.

That's why I've always taken a double take when seeing airline guys with their hats on while doing a walkaround on the flightline. However, although its technically against common etiquette to wear one's hat indoors generally speaking; it's accepted etiquette for airline pilot hat wear in the indoors of an airport terminal, for example.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Well, if we're pretending to be in the military

Police officers wear uniforms. Are they "pretending to be in the military," as well?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Even at mainline? I mean, Ive seen younger pilots that way who are generally at regionals, but I don't know if I've seen the sneakers/ipod/spiked hair at mainline. Granted, I don't ride on 121 daily or even weekly, so it could be limited exposure on my part to airports and the like.

It's definitely worse at the regionals, but it's spreading to the mainline carriers, and just like that aforementioned chief pilot said, it all started with making the hats optional. I don't see many mainline guys with the iPod earbuds or spiky hair, but I've seen black tennis shoes and black dockers on quite a few. It's getting worse.

 

[dasleben]

Police officers wear uniforms. Are they "pretending to be in the military," as well?

Police officers are sworn government officials. Airline pilots are civilians who often love to march around in uniforms ripped off from various branches of the military. That's fine and all, but people need to realize that we dress like this simply because that's what the public expects us to look like. I wear dress shoes and a pressed uniform just the same, but like most of my peers, I don't give my uniform much thought beyond how my company says I should wear it. I don't give any credence to the idea that it's "tradition" either, as it's more or less a tradition borrowed from the military (of which I've never been a member). I've gotten more than one "Thank you for your service" while wearing my uniform, and it makes me feel like a bit of a fraud for dressing up in the same style of stripes and wings.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

people need to realize that we dress like this simply because that's what the public expects us to look like

Your point? Of course that's why we dress like this. It inspires confidence. People are placing their lives in your hands. They want to feel good about it, and seeing a guy who looks like the traditional airline pilot makes them feel better. Seeing a guy with a goatee and black sneakers doesn't make them feel better. It makes them wonder if this guy is just as sloppy and unprofessional with the rest of his job. It's the same reason that doctors wear a lab coat and a tie. Because it looks professional, and it's what people expect to see from a doctor. If they say a guy in jeans and a polo shirt, a large number of people wouldn't feel very comfortable with this guy diagnosing their serious medical conditions, let alone operating on them. I know I wouldn't go to such a doctor.

 

[MikeD]

It's the same reason that doctors wear a lab coat and a tie. Because it looks professional, and it's what people expect to see from a doctor. If they say a guy in jeans and a polo shirt, a large number of people wouldn't feel very comfortable with this guy diagnosing their serious medical conditions, let alone operating on them. I know I wouldn't go to such a doctor.

Here's a story for you.

Back in about the late '80s to starting in the early '90s, you saw a loosening-up in the medical profession. You'd see doctors in ERs and such spending all day in scrubs shirts and pants, and/or wearing sneakers and slacks with a button down shirt and their stethoscope, and even doing "dress down Fridays".

My dad, who retired in '99 after 30 years in the profession as a heart surgeon, to his last day and even on the hottest AZ days in summer, always wore a conservative coat and tie when he did hospital rounds. No exception. To him, scrubs were ONLY for the operating room.....you got into them when you scrubbed in for surgery, got out of them when you completed surgery. Very rarely, if family was waiting for word of their loved one who was in surgery, would he appear in public post-surgery to give them word of their loved one personally, and then ONLY if the scrubs were clean.

He was very adamant about this, even while the new younger doctors/residents/interns were going down the slacker road.

 

[dasleben]

Your point? Of course that's why we dress like this. It inspires confidence. People are placing their lives in your hands. They want to feel good about it, and seeing a guy who looks like the traditional airline pilot makes them feel better. Seeing a guy with a goatee and black sneakers doesn't make them feel better. It makes them wonder if this guy is just as sloppy and unprofessional with the rest of his job. It's the same reason that doctors wear a lab coat and a tie. Because it looks professional, and it's what people expect to see from a doctor. If they say a guy in jeans and a polo shirt, a large number of people wouldn't feel very comfortable with this guy diagnosing their serious medical conditions, let alone operating on them. I know I wouldn't go to such a doctor.

I don't think you're giving the traveling public much credit. I wore a goatee for a good long while as a professional pilot (and didn't wear a tie for part of it!), and my professionalism has never been questioned, nor have I had anyone stay off my plane as a result. By the way, the CA I flew with yesterday has a goatee, as do a fair number of the pilots I fly with. Leather jackets, no hats. Lo and behold, we're all professionals and are always treated as such. However, I concede that in my industry segment, people are much more receptive to facial hair and slightly non-traditional pilot uniforms.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Here's a story for you.

Back in about the late '80s to starting in the early '90s, you saw a loosening-up in the medical profession. You'd see doctors in ERs and such spending all day in scrubs shirts and pants, and/or wearing sneakers and slacks with a button down shirt and their stethoscope, and even doing "dress down Fridays".

My dad, who retired in '99 after 30 years in the profession as a heart surgeon, to his last day and even on the hottest AZ days in summer, always wore a conservative coat and tie when he did hospital rounds. No exception. To him, scrubs were ONLY for the operating room.....you got into them when you scrubbed in for surgery, got out of them when you completed surgery. Very rarely, if family was waiting for word of their loved one who was in surgery, would he appear in public post-surgery to give them word of their loved one personally, and then ONLY if the scrubs were clean.

He was very adamant about this, even while the new younger doctors/residents/interns were going down the slacker road.

Sounds like my kind of guy.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I don't think you're giving the traveling public much credit.

And I don't think you're being very realistic about public perception.

 

[Blackhawk]

If you don't want to comply with your company's uniform policy you need to be honest with them and make a point of telling them during your interview.
We like to think we are in the business of flying, but we are in the customer service industry. Like it or not first impressions mean everything and we apply it ourselves. What people expect to see in the cockpit of the airplane changes with times and conditions, but we should try to present the image that they and those who pay the salaries expect.
Mike also makes a good point about the uniform making one recognizable in situations that may require it. If a gate agent needed to talk to the captain the uniform I wore distinguished me from the mingle of passengers.
I also find it ironic that as a group pilots bemoan the loss of prestige in aviation, call for a return to the good old days, and talk bad about flight attendants today and cabin service. I grew up in a Pan Am town and vividly remember seeing pilots from the good old days. Much like Mike's Dad none of them would be caught dead in public out of uniform or with as much as a tie out of place. As a young kid there was absolutely no doubt in my mind who they were and what they represented.

 

[Blackhawk]

Here's a story for you.

Back in about the late '80s to starting in the early '90s, you saw a loosening-up in the medical profession. You'd see doctors in ERs and such spending all day in scrubs shirts and pants, and/or wearing sneakers and slacks with a button down shirt and their stethoscope, and even doing "dress down Fridays".

My dad, who retired in '99 after 30 years in the profession as a heart surgeon, to his last day and even on the hottest AZ days in summer, always wore a conservative coat and tie when he did hospital rounds. No exception. To him, scrubs were ONLY for the operating room.....you got into them when you scrubbed in for surgery, got out of them when you completed surgery. Very rarely, if family was waiting for word of their loved one who was in surgery, would he appear in public post-surgery to give them word of their loved one personally, and then ONLY if the scrubs were clean.

He was very adamant about this, even while the new younger doctors/residents/interns were going down the slacker road.

In the 30 years my brother-in-law as been an orthopeadic surgeon I don't think I have ever seen him in scrubs.
My wife, not so much. Though she normally will wear khaki pants and an Oxford shirt in civilian hospitals and her military uniform when in an Army hospital.

 

[etflies]

When I first got hired at an airline, my uncle offered to buy me the hat. When I upgraded, he again offered. My uncle has flown for a major for nearly 30yrs, and always had a clean and pressed uniform, shined dress shoes and worn the hat. He's a consummate professional in my eyes. I also grew up flying Delta between San Diego and Salt Lake. L1011 and black smoke, ground shaking loud 727 Delta. Widget Delta. Not SkyWest playing Delta. I remember very distinctly watching their pilots walk up wearing the jacket, buttoned, and the hat and being impressed. I guess I try and emulate all of that. To me, its part of the uniform. Pay, crappy work rules, a profession we're going to have to fight tooth and nail to hold onto and maybe even restore, if only a little, should not be an excuse to look like crap or act like anything other than a professional. I've never cared for the uniform and a North Face look, or the loose hanging tie, or starting a day in a wrinkled uniform, etc. Maybe I'm a tool, maybe I'm old school, maybe I'm a poet and don't even know it.



Now get off my lawn and quit driving so fast.

 

[DPApilot]

I wear mine with or without the coat. I think it looks terrible without the coat.

We're outside of mandatory coat season but I'll wear mine until it warms up in Europe. However, how come the fattest pilots are the first to go "Woo hoo! Summer uniform time!" and then bitch about how cold it is?

Always see you guys in the hat no jacket. Our new uniform is cardigan (your fav) or a leather jacket. Not sure how I feel about the leather jacket and hat; same goes for no jacket and the hat...

 

[X-Forces]

Good replies thus far. About what I expected to see. I am, however, a bit distressed by the sort of unilateral association of "No hat" with "Sloppy crew member" or "Unprofessional"

I do not choose to wear my hat, and this is an option the company has given me. I am professional.

I'll put my uniform up against just about anyone else I fly with, and I often do. From a dry cleaned pressed blazer to starched,pressed and creased shirts, to Kiwi parade gloss shined shoes, I keep my uniform top notch. If you're a slob then you are going to be a slob with or without a hat on. As for backpacks, sneekers, earbuds, spiky hair (That would be a neat trick), I am not THAT guy. The attitude towards your appearance both in and out of uniform is individual, and personally don't think you can accurately determine one's level of standard by whether or not they choose to wear headgear.

Personally, I feel that some companies had actually been the greatest enemy to uniforms and uniformity. I like having the option to wear out hats or not, but make no mistake, if hats were mandatory I would have no issue. After 8+ years of military service, wearing headgear is not something that really phases me. On the same note, the option between leather jackets or trench coats, or short or long sleeve, or blazer or no blazer might be excessive. I have seen 4 crew members together and you would almost swear that they worked for 4 different airlines. If the intent is to truly instil a feeling of uniformity and tradition to the public then perhaps fewer options should be offered. That being said, the company institutes the policy, so presumably they are happy with the results.

As far as the idea of "Tradition" goes, well......meh!

Smoking on board was tradition.
Stewardesses with super short skirts not over the age of 30 was tradition.
Full meals on Transcon flights was tradition.
People dressing up in shirts and ties to travel was tradition.

And my personal favorite
For a very long time, the closest a black guy came to flight crew was SkyCap, that was tradition.

Quite frankly "Tradition" can kiss my butt! You can't simply parse out the tasty bits of history you like to view as traditional without acknowledging the dynamics of the entire situation as a whole. The fact is the whole industry has changed, in some way for the better and most certainly in some way for the worst. Some may look at the changes in uniform standard as a chance for the worse, however there has been much evolution in the industry that has been for the better, such as safety and technological aspects.

I guess my point is that things are going to evolve and not everyone is going to be keen, but to make reference to some of the "Good ol' day" aspects without taking into account some of the "Not so good ol' days" is disingenuous.

Just my $0.02

 

[fholbert]

Some peoples head is too big for a hat.

 

[Adler]

Some peoples head is too big for a hat.

And some people look too young for the hat.

 

[derg]

And some people look too young for the hat.

Business-traveling cougars still use that line at the Terminal C Chilis? Wow! THAT'S been a while.