LGA: Brickyard and United near miss in IFR conditions

Boris Badenov said:
I mean obviously they're cheaper, or they wouldn't exist, but every time I see LED "strobes" I think we might as well just save ALL of the money and not have strobes at all. They're Christmas lights. Zero "shock value".
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They don’t show up on my EVS/HUD
 
///AMG said:
was United supposed to have taken an exit from the runway that they in fact did not......and GND/TWR both thought they were off the runway because they'd been told to exit there and then continue on the route they were clarifying with ground?
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United did not make the first turn off Rwy 13 they were assigned. This was acknowledged by ATC and they were given a new turnoff further down the runway.

The takeoff clearance for brickyard was stepped-on by an aircraft on approach, but Brickyard acknowledged and commenced.

The takeoff-cancelled call from tower was blocked also by traffic reading a landing clearance.

United might have been slow in clearing the runway. Unclear because the video’s time progression is not linear and it was raining in IMC, compared to surface movement on a dry sunny day.
 
Kingairer said:
There’s also a possibility that we’re just seeing this more because of YouTube and accessibility of the data to recreate these.
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The few places we’ve allowed AI to look at reveal a startling amount of potential airspace conflicts well inside the minimums for what was before that point considered “effectively coordinated and deconflicted.”

I’ll bet you technology is going to continue pulling the fog back on a lot of scary that’s been normalized deviance going on, but wasn’t the concern because there were other things garnering attention. Once airplanes stopped crashing for things like in flight wiring fires and engine failures, the wider system gets to be seen for what it actually is.
 
bLizZuE said:
?????

This is an awful lot of sass for something that was ATCs fault
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I'm being sassy.

But from the video, and again, nonlinear, it does appear that United, having received amended turnoff instructions after missing the first twy, simply sits there at the intersection of the runway and taxiway.

I've seen ATC issue a lot of squeezy clearances when traffic is on the runway but obviously turning off onto a taxiway, and from the video it appears that's what happened, but then United appears to have just stopped.

Again, appears. Mostly I'm just being sassy. Almost every failure in aviation safety is a systemic issue where individual performance is at most a contributing factor.
 
🦈💜 said:
I'm being sassy.

But from the video, and again, nonlinear, it does appear that United, having received amended turnoff instructions after missing the first twy, simply sits there at the intersection of the runway and taxiway.

I've seen ATC issue a lot of squeezy clearances when traffic is on the runway but obviously turning off onto a taxiway, and from the video it appears that's what happened, but then United appears to have just stopped.

Again, appears. Mostly I'm just being sassy. Almost every failure in aviation safety is a systemic issue where individual performance is at most a contributing factor.
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I’m not really sure why you are concentrating so much on UA here. A couple of things. It’s dark and wet with relatively low visibility and tight taxiways so it’s not like they are moving quickly to begin with. Add in the fact they missed their reverse highspeed turn off, which would have required a very slow speed for the turn off anyway plus some confusion of their next taxi instructions and I would imagine any of us would be moving slowly that night.
 
CFIscare said:
I’m not really sure why you are concentrating so much on UA here. A couple of things. It’s dark and wet with relatively low visibility and tight taxiways so it’s not like they are moving quickly to begin with. Add in the fact they missed their reverse highspeed turn off, which would have required a very slow speed for the turn off anyway plus some confusion of their next taxi instructions and I would imagine any of us would be moving slowly that night.
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I'm being sassy.

But from the video, and again, nonlinear, it does appear that United, having received amended turnoff instructions after missing the first twy, simply sits there at the intersection of the runway and taxiway.

I've seen ATC issue a lot of squeezy clearances when traffic is on the runway but obviously turning off onto a taxiway, and from the video it appears that's what happened, but then United appears to have just stopped.

Again, appears. Mostly I'm just being sassy. Almost every failure in aviation safety is a systemic issue where individual performance is at most a contributing factor.
 
🦈💜 said:
I'm being sassy.

But from the video, and again, nonlinear, it does appear that United, having received amended turnoff instructions after missing the first twy, simply sits there at the intersection of the runway and taxiway.

I've seen ATC issue a lot of squeezy clearances when traffic is on the runway but obviously turning off onto a taxiway, and from the video it appears that's what happened, but then United appears to have just stopped.

Again, appears. Mostly I'm just being sassy. Almost every failure in aviation safety is a systemic issue where individual performance is at most a contributing factor.
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Ok- so you’re being sassy. However, this video is edited and is not an actual timeline. We have no idea where united was when clearances were issued. Regardless, it appears ATC made a mistake by giving a takeoff clearance with traffic on the runway.

Doesn’t matter if united stopped. If a turkey runs across the runway I’ll probably stop. If I drop my coffee I’ll probably stop. I shouldn’t realistically expect that anytime I stop another aircraft will be given takeoff clearance behind me.
 
bLizZuE said:
Ok- so you’re being sassy. However, this video is edited and is not an actual timeline. We have no idea where united was when clearances were issued. Regardless, it appears ATC made a mistake by giving a takeoff clearance with traffic on the runway.
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I don't disagree at all.

bLizZuE said:
Doesn’t matter if united stopped. If a turkey runs across the runway I’ll probably stop. If I drop my coffee I’ll probably stop. I shouldn’t realistically expect that anytime I stop another aircraft will be given takeoff clearance behind me.
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I don't disagree at all.
 
Lawman said:
The few places we’ve allowed AI to look at reveal a startling amount of potential airspace conflicts well inside the minimums for what was before that point considered “effectively coordinated and deconflicted.”

I’ll bet you technology is going to continue pulling the fog back on a lot of scary that’s been normalized deviance going on, but wasn’t the concern because there were other things garnering attention. Once airplanes stopped crashing for things like in flight wiring fires and engine failures, the wider system gets to be seen for what it actually is.
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There’s going to be an entirely preventable collision at BUR/VNY someday, and the resulting investigation is going to look a lot like what happened at DCA. An unsafe configuration in extremely congested airspace, with thousands of reports filed on, that nobody did anything with.

I can only assume there are similar issues all over the NAS, that people are aware are dangerous but nothing is done. It’s laughable for the FAA to say they care about safety, they don’t. At least not how Air Traffic side is run.
 
nabbyfan said:
There’s going to be an entirely preventable collision at BUR/VNY someday, and the resulting investigation is going to look a lot like what happened at DCA. An unsafe configuration in extremely congested airspace, with thousands of reports filed on, that nobody did anything with.

I can only assume there are similar issues all over the NAS, that people are aware are dangerous but nothing is done. It’s laughable for the FAA to say they care about safety, they don’t. At least not how Air Traffic side is run.
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Cross VNY at 3,000, cleared visual approach runway 8?
 
arkflyr said:

View: https://youtu.be/7jxF-aLqjxU?si=VJtEAvMBLDTHhqQ-
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What an absolutely horrible control that VNY guy gave them. Panic, unable to formulate words, that was absolutely unsat. Guy shouldn’t be sitting in that seat anymore after that. Just about caused a mass fatality fireball because he couldn’t just say “level there” or “stop your climb” or whatever other understandable phrase he could have used. “Traffic 2 miles west of field at XX” tells them absolutely less than nothing. Inside a few miles, how about “1 o’clock, 500 feet above you descending” or something….jesus
 
///AMG said:
What an absolutely horrible control that VNY guy gave them. Panic, unable to formulate words, that was absolutely unsat. Guy shouldn’t be sitting in that seat anymore after that. Just about caused a mass fatality fireball because he couldn’t just say “level there” or “stop your climb” or whatever other understandable phrase he could have used. “Traffic 2 miles west of field at XX” tells them absolutely less than nothing. Inside a few miles, how about “1 o’clock, 500 feet above you descending” or something….jesus
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If their display isn’t a certified one they legally can’t use o’clock positions in the tower
 
///AMG said:
What an absolutely horrible control that VNY guy gave them. Panic, unable to formulate words, that was absolutely unsat. Guy shouldn’t be sitting in that seat anymore after that. Just about caused a mass fatality fireball because he couldn’t just say “level there” or “stop your climb” or whatever other understandable phrase he could have used. “Traffic 2 miles west of field at XX” tells them absolutely less than nothing. Inside a few miles, how about “1 o’clock, 500 feet above you descending” or something….jesus
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The controller was rattled, but that GD, was • clueless. Asking for a vector when you are inside of a mile to the airport? Not knowing a missed approach procedure? Hell if they loaded it into the FMS all they had to do was follow the guidance. Sounds like an older gentleman. Might be time to hang up the wings. Hopefully I recognize it myself before someone has to tell me I need to.
 
sorrygottarunway said:
My ASAP from 2011 was never answered
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Most of mine have gone unanswered, or, functionally equivalently, closed with the liability mitigation language pat on the head of "no further action is happening, than you for enhancing safety at XX airlines."

That said, the handful I've had that were answered with something more were REALLY answered, including one that got a bunch of AOA probes changed once, so, meh.
 
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