Lets save Runwayfinder.com

mshunter said:
Yet no one is willing to help any of these people out, instead, they are just going to roll over and take it. What a shame. This is only the begining.
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My initial post on the thread I said I wouldn't help them out, but I was unaware of their circumstances. After reading what is actually going on, I would / can donate. If you set something up to help their cause let me know either on this thread of PM.
 
Dave from RunwayFinder in his latest blog post said he's going to fight it and represent himself. Wish he would open up the site again....
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
I have read it. But I know how much there is to understand about patent registration process, the patent claims, and the underlying technology used by both FlightPrep and RunwayFinder. I also know that I don't know enough about any of it with respect to this dispute to have anything other than a visceral reaction about whether I personally like it or not.

Since you apparently do understand all that, you have an advantage over me.

We can probably all agree, though, that this is a PR nightmare for FlighPrep and, whether right or wrong, what were they thinking?
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I'm with you.

I've been involved (on the periphery) with enough patent legal stuff to know that it takes a lot more than a casual read-through to really understand who has a case and who doesn't. The verbiage can be difficult, but even more so is understanding the nuances of the claims.

Either way, it's a shame to see good sites having to put scarce resources into these kind of battles.
 
instead of trying to help runwayfinder with money to fight a legal case, let's make it hurt on FP where it counts and spread the word to not use their services.

That way instead of feeding the fire and making this fight big, we can extinguish the fire right at the source. If FP loses customers and loses their operating income, they can no longer fight.
 
elmetal said:
instead of trying to help runwayfinder with money to fight a legal case, let's make it hurt on FP where it counts and spread the word to not use their services.

That way instead of feeding the fire and making this fight big, we can extinguish the fire right at the source. If FP loses customers and loses their operating income, they can no longer fight.
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It's a good idea, but often times attorneys will do it on a commission basis. Epecially if they have filed suit for $3m+. And, if it goes to court, and FP loses, they can't sue for the same thing again. They can appeal, but they can't file a new suit. If all of these guys that are being harassed by FP band together, they could nip this in the bud a little easier. IMHO, it's better to take it to court and get it over with, even if they lose.
 
elmetal said:
instead of trying to help runwayfinder with money to fight a legal case, let's make it hurt on FP where it counts and spread the word to not use their services.
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I sent an email to CSC DUAT this morning (they make the free version of FlightPrep software availble for download) and told them that while I prefer them to DTC DUATS, I would not use their services so long as they had a business relationship with FlightPrep.
 
You guys need to decide which side of this argument you want to be on. Put aside the issue of copyright for the moment. You guys had no problem with this fellow giving away his services, even though he was undermining the other providers of services in this market. Meanwhile, in another thread, you're all pissed that some ferry pilot isn't charging enough for his services, thus undermining your market. You can't have it both ways. If you expect to get paid for your services, shouldn't you also expect someone else to get paid for theirs?
 
O&M said:
You guys need to decide which side of this argument you want to be on. Put aside the issue of copyright for the moment. You guys had no problem with this fellow giving away his services, even though he was undermining the other providers of services in this market. Meanwhile, in another thread, you're all pissed that some ferry pilot isn't charging enough for his services, thus undermining your market. You can't have it both ways. If you expect to get paid for your services, shouldn't you also expect someone else to get paid for theirs?
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I think you fail to see the point of the thread, and the reasoning behind it all. What FP has basically done is taken a free service, and bullied the little guy. These are two completely seperate issues at hand here. One, takes a degree, and a considerable amount of money to attain, and is a profession. The other, is some guy in his basement more than likely, tooling around with some code to take information that is already free, and put it into a context that he makes availible for free. What FP has also done is tried to squat this technology so no one else can use it, wheter for gain or not. They did not re-invent the wheel like they are trying so desperatly to claim. They came in, tried to get a patent, were denied, re-wrote the patent with better language(read as more vauge) and were granted it. Now, ALL flight planning software is under attack from these four guys who "slipped one under the radar" so to speak. Name one company that hasn't recived a letter from them telling them they must now license their product or face millions in a law suit. It's wrong, if not on a legal level, on a moral level.
 
All that may be, but judging both from the posts on this threat, and the overall lack of support reflected in the poll, people are more outraged about the fact that they now have to pay for something that was previously free. As I say, if you want to get paid, you should also be willing to pay.
 
O&M said:
All that may be, but judging both from the posts on this threat, and the overall lack of support reflected in the poll, people are more outraged about the fact that they now have to pay for something that was previously free. As I say, if you want to get paid, you should also be willing to pay.
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That may reflect your perceptions more than the intent of the posters.

Obviously, if this were just a battle between FlightPrep and, say Jeppesen, it would draw less interest than the fact that it affecte multiple and, yes, free providers.

But I can tell you that in my case, although I have used most of the free sites for convenience, I also pay for flight planning software. I also admit to having no opinion on the validity of the FlightPrep patent or whether or not RunwayFinder in particular is infringing on it.

But I am bothered by what I perceive as a broad brush tactic that doesn't appear to differentiate between those that might arguably be infringing and those who clearly are not and appears to target the smallest players rather than those that are able to fight back.
 
O&M said:
All that may be, but judging both from the posts on this threat, and the overall lack of support reflected in the poll, people are more outraged about the fact that they now have to pay for something that was previously free. As I say, if you want to get paid, you should also be willing to pay.
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Remember the phrase "Think before you speak?" ??

I present you a new one:

"Read the thread before you contribute"

Imagine if you came back tomorrow and google was taken down because SearchXYZ claimed some vague patent BS and you had no other choice because all search engines came down except SearchXYZ, who now charges 149 dollars a year

You'd be pissed. It's not about the money. It's about the fact that they took something that is as vague an idea as searching the internet, and found a lawyer with enough greed, connections and skill to patent it and now are bullying the ones people actually use, such as Yahoo, Google, or Bing.

That's the issue. I'd possibly pay a little money, but 149 dollars? Absolutely not. They are where they are because they are clearly delusional and have no one working for them who has their feet planted on the same earth as you and I. If they did they would not be so expensive and maybe, just maybe might have customers and wouldn't need to destroy the competition to obtain customers.

Good day
 
elmetal said:
Remember the phrase "Think before you speak?" ??

I present you a new one:

"Read the thread before you contribute"

Imagine if you came back tomorrow and google was taken down because SearchXYZ claimed some vague patent BS and you had no other choice because all search engines came down except SearchXYZ, who now charges 149 dollars a year

You'd be pissed. It's not about the money. It's about the fact that they took something that is as vague an idea as searching the internet, and found a lawyer with enough greed, connections and skill to patent it and now are bullying the ones people actually use, such as Yahoo, Google, or Bing.

That's the issue. I'd possibly pay a little money, but 149 dollars? Absolutely not. They are where they are because they are clearly delusional and have no one working for them who has their feet planted on the same earth as you and I. If they did they would not be so expensive and maybe, just maybe might have customers and wouldn't need to destroy the competition to obtain customers.

Good day
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Not only that but imagine that searchXYZ was a worse product.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
That may reflect your perceptions more than the intent of the posters.

Obviously, if this were just a battle between FlightPrep and, say Jeppesen, it would draw less interest than the fact that it affecte multiple and, yes, free providers.

But I can tell you that in my case, although I have used most of the free sites for convenience, I also pay for flight planning software. I also admit to having no opinion on the validity of the FlightPrep patent or whether or not RunwayFinder in particular is infringing on it.

But I am bothered by what I perceive as a broad brush tactic that doesn't appear to differentiate between those that might arguably be infringing and those who clearly are not and appears to target the smallest players rather than those that are able to fight back.
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True, but is isn't as if this tactic hasn't been around for ages. I think folks are a little shocked by what they see by peering into this process a little bit more, and maybe they should be.

But to believe that this hasn't been happening since the beginning of the lawful society would be wrong. Artful pleading, frivolous lawsuits, malicious prosecution and any other variation of this strategy is an age old tactic that continues to stick around because it works.
 
jtrain609 said:
True, but is isn't as if this tactic hasn't been around for ages. I think folks are a little shocked by what they see by peering into this process a little bit more, and maybe they should be.

But to believe that this hasn't been happening since the beginning of the lawful society would be wrong. Artful pleading, frivolous lawsuits, malicious prosecution and any other variation of this strategy is an age old tactic that continues to stick around because it works.
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Can't speak for anyone else, but I know to a certainty that this has been happening since even before lawful society and I'm not the least bit shocked by that knowledge.
 
This is just a patent troll and I can guarantee you I will never buy flight prep now. This type of action is ruining my industry, software. Eventually if these jerks get their way no one will want to take a chance unless they have a law firm on staff to search the patent database, fight off law suits, and basically defend themselves against complete nonsense. So the moral of the story becomes "never try". Do you really want that? Because half of my industry is ready to pack it up and go home. Tired of this nonsense. Like you said, a man should be able to get paid for his work. Not fear his earnings will get stolen by lawyers.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
No, I won't pay. They infringed on copyright, and as such should deal with the consequences. As much as I don't like that people can copyright software methods, until that is illegal, I can't support circumventing copyrights.

Honestly, the owner of the website will be lucky if he can just walk away and not get stuck paying for all the potential lost revenue he caused.
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Can you please explain how this guy "circumvented copyrights"?

First off it's a patent trial, not copyright law. Second off, this patent is bogus like most software patents. I understand you like to follow the law but this law is doing the opposite of what was intended, to spur innovation. Would you agree or disagree?
 
FYI there is now a legal fund donation link on the runwayfinder page and a blog post detailing how it will be used, all you who voted yes, time to pony up.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
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