Length of Final Approach

NYCDooDahMan

NYCDooDahMan

New Member
Hey All, just curious is there a uniform length of final? I mean I live in NYC, when LGA has RWY22 active for landings, it seems like they are sending the planes a good 15 miles on base before they turn into final.
On Airport Monitor watching the action, (which I am hopelessy addicted to) the planes fly north on base and make the turn into final (for those who know NY area) in Northen Westchester, atleast 15-20 miles away from RWY22.
Is this the standard distance for final approach?
Conversely, when they have RWY31 active for landings, the planes coming in from the south turn into final no more than 10 miles out...any ideas?
 
Length of the approach could be as long as you have reliable signal from the navaid. Length of final is measured from the FAF to the MAP and varies per approach. I've seen planes in Orlando join an approach WAY out there, and I've seen Orlando Approach slip them in inside of the Outer Marker. It depends on spacing, traffic flow and (especially here) weather.
 
The only thing I know about jet approaches are that they are pretty long, but that length depends on many factors. As far as simple prop planes go I was always taught to stay pretty close in case of engine failure.
 
I saw a CHQ ERJ do a full on freight dog steep turn REAL close to the approach end of 17L the other night. I hope it was a ferry flight otherwise those passengers got the ride of their lives.
 
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any ideas?

[/ QUOTE ]Sure. These airplanes are all on IFR flight plans and are being vectored into position to intercept the final approach course. What direction they are sent has to do with a number of variables.

They include the location of the final approach fixes for the instrument landing procedure in effect and the effect or other airports in the area. In NYC, NY Approach Control is dealing with three major airports.

Take a look at your sectional or terminal area chart. You'll see that when LGA 22 is being used, ATC has the luxury of giving a long final, In fact putting LGA traffic on final a long way out will keep it clear of any conflict with EWR and JFK traffic.

On the other hand, look at what happens when LGA 31 is in use. Traffic from the west gets in the way of EWR's pattern and traffic from the southeast gets in the way of JFK's. Tighter tolerances are needed.
 
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I saw a CHQ ERJ do a full on freight dog steep turn REAL close to the approach end of 17L the other night. I hope it was a ferry flight otherwise those passengers got the ride of their lives.

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Wasnt me!

Paying passengers always get the ride of their lives on SWA, and thats before they even make it to the runway.
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When I'm flying, I often keep it pretty tight in the pattern if I can. I've been known to roll out of 1 1/2 mile final for a runway, so that I'm stabilized at 500' AFL straight in. Sometimes we are cleared for a straight-in visual or ILS some 30+ miles out. So it varies tremendously. Even for instrument approaches, at some airports (MDW) we join up the localizer 25 miles out. At other airports, we join up 2 or 3 miles from the final approach fix.
 
The large majority of finals going into DIA are dictated by the controllers( speeds, altitudes, etc) and final seems to average 15-20 miles. Of course on a Sunday morning when its slow you can crank and bank cessna style and keep it as tight as you want. Thats the goods!!
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When I'm flying, I often keep it pretty tight in the pattern if I can. I've been known to roll out of 1 1/2 mile final for a runway, so that I'm stabilized at 500' AFL straight in.

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Good man. That's what I like to see! No C-5 patterns around the field...
 
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Good man. That's what I like to see! No C-5 patterns around the field...

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Man, no doubt. It annoys the heck out of me sometimes when I'm trying to work, in and out, in and out, and a transient comes in who decides his or her Cessna 150 is actually a 747 and they fly a ten mile out pattern.

My old boss was a DE and on a ride if the pilot flew a pattern like that it was GUARANTEED to get him or her an engine failed. And if that pattern was too wide to make it to the runway, well, see ya next time.
 
Final is a vague term, too. Are we talking vectors? Tracking the LOC? Visual? Airline or GA? IMC or VMC?

LGA 22 can be a royal pain. Went in there a few times and we'd fly by the airport (severe clear) and it would be another 20 minutes before we landed because of the traffic. Occasionally they'd vector 22 traffic to the East, instead of sending you up the river. That was murder. The Expressway Visual 31, however, is charted, and you have no choice but to turn a short final due to airspace congestions.

MDW is a blast when you get the 31 circle to 22. It's one of the rare occasions that you can have fun in the name of "well, the controllers don't like long finals..."

PHL would alleviate 25 miles finals by vectoring an boxy S turn on the downwind. You'd be abeam the airport then get two turns going the other way, then two more back to downwind. Crazy, but it works.

The LAX "finals" are basically part of most of the arrivals. You fly the arrival and join the LOC of the runway you're assigned. Works very well.
 
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Check out some of the approaches into L.A. and you'll see some really long finals.

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that might as well have been written in chinese!!!!!
 
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Check out some of the approaches into L.A. and you'll see some really long finals.

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that might as well have been written in chinese!!!!!

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Yeah, alot going on there....But a CFII could sure have some fun!!!
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[quoteMan, no doubt. It annoys the heck out of me sometimes when I'm trying to work, in and out, in and out, and a transient comes in who decides his or her Cessna 150 is actually a 747 and they fly a ten mile out pattern.

My old boss was a DE and on a ride if the pilot flew a pattern like that it was GUARANTEED to get him or her an engine failed. And if that pattern was too wide to make it to the runway, well, see ya next time.

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So do you actually fly a final? Seems like a waste of time and airspace.
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I agree that there's no need to fly a 4-mile downwind to a 4-mile final. However, the whole "Always be in a position to land" thing is...well, to open myself up to the flames of the purists, silly.

You can't always be in a position to land on the runway. I don't care how you twist it, it's impossible. If that's your logic, I can only support it 100% if you climb to 10,000 circleing above the airport, and then you plan your route in such a way as to always be within gliding distance of a runway.
 
i just looked at the plates for lax----that some sick stuff. transitions all over the place for the different ils approaches.
 
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i just looked at the plates for lax----that some sick stuff. transitions all over the place for the different ils approaches.

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The Paradise Four is very cool!!
 
i just looked at the paradise 4.....insanity at its finest....really channels down the traffic though...makes atc have it easy.
 
Paradise 4 is a blast to fly; I've done that many times. Nothing like setting up a nice, smooth decent rate at 250, then being asked to slow (expedited!) to 180 to follow a 747. Yeah, that's great. That thing looks wild, but fly it once and it's a piece of cake. Works great, lasts long time.

When we fly PHX-SNA, it's rather simple: the BXK1.PSP departure matched to the PSP.KAYOH4 arrival. Talk about a no-brainer.
 
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