Learjet 60 crash in West Palm Beach

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CFI A&P said:
Sounds entirely possible. Is there a source for this?
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Rushed isn’t the word I use. Scripted, to a fault, is. There is no room for “things you want to see or do”. Even though they like to pretend the training is there for you. It’s not. It’s there to check the FAA boxes and get you to pass in the allotted time you(or your company) paid for.

I’m flying three types right now. Thankfully my company sends us to recurrent every 12 months. Which puts me in an FSI building very regularly. I’m telling you I could fly the MEM RNAV 27 circle to Rwy 18R blindfolded with a broken arm and my sisters kids climbing all over the cockpit and still nail it within standards.

But that’s not training. That’s not making me a better, safer, more knowledgeable pilot.

Let’s have an engine failure on a warm day out of Aspen and the gear won’t come up.

Let’s fly over a convective area at altitude and have an engine failure and see just how far down single engine drift down is going to be. Sure you’re clearing the tops now but what if we lost one?

Let’s do 35kt crosswind landings in COS.

Or landing in Florida in moderate rain.
Or contaminated runway simulations
Or a myriad of other scenarios that they don’t cover at all that need to be seen in a simulator before you have to go do it for real.

I feel his sentiment though. I haven’t heard yet how much time he had in type. Hopefully if this statement of his is true he wasn’t speaking about his initial type training.

Edit to add show me any 1300 pilot in their first jet that isn’t a little too reliant on the autopilot. And even if true her lack of basic flying skills don’t mean • when you don’t have a tail. Given the scenario im pretty sure Bob Hoover wasn’t getting them out of it once it turned south.
 
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Wardogg said:
Rushed isn’t the word I use. Scripted, to a fault, is. There is no room for “things you want to see or do”. Even though they like to pretend the training is there for you. It’s not. It’s there to check the FAA boxes and get you to pass in the allotted time you(or your company) paid for.
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No argument here. Some of the instructors at 142 schools are incredibly knowledgeable and passionate about their craft, but corporate limits the ability to teach anything that's not on the script.

Circle at JFK, MEM, or JNU? Yawn, we can all do those in our sleep. How about ILS 6 circle 1 at TEB when the weather is • with 30kt NW winds? Sorry, can't do that - it isn't on the approved maneuvers.
 
Wardogg said:
Rushed isn’t the word I use. Scripted, to a fault, is. There is no room for “things you want to see or do”. Even though they like to pretend the training is there for you. It’s not. It’s there to check the FAA boxes and get you to pass in the allotted time you(or your company) paid for.

I’m flying three types right now. Thankfully my company sends us to recurrent every 12 months. Which puts me in an FSI building very regularly. I’m telling you I could fly the MEM RNAV 27 circle to Rwy 18R blindfolded with a broken arm and my sisters kids climbing all over the cockpit and still nail it within standards.

But that’s not training. That’s not making me a better, safer, more knowledgeable pilot.

Let’s have an engine failure on a warm day out of Aspen and the gear won’t come up.

Let’s fly over a convective area at altitude and have an engine failure and see just how far down single engine drift down is going to be. Sure you’re clearing the tops now but what if we lost one?

Let’s do 35kt crosswind landings in COS.

Or landing in Florida in moderate rain.
Or contaminated runway simulations
Or a myriad of other scenarios that they don’t cover at all that need to be seen in a simulator before you have to go do it for real.

I feel his sentiment though. I haven’t heard yet how much time he had in type. Hopefully if this statement of his is true he wasn’t speaking about his initial type training.

Edit to add show me any 1300 pilot in their first jet that isn’t a little too reliant on the autopilot. And even if true her lack of basic flying skills don’t mean • when you don’t have a tail. Given the scenario im pretty sure Bob Hoover wasn’t getting them out of it once it turned south.
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Excellent points on the FO. I’m quite sure well over 50% of FO’s at the airlines with 1500 on their first jet have the same note somewhere in their training file.
 
Wardogg said:
Rushed isn’t the word I use. Scripted, to a fault, is. There is no room for “things you want to see or do”. Even though they like to pretend the training is there for you. It’s not. It’s there to check the FAA boxes and get you to pass in the allotted time you(or your company) paid for.

I’m flying three types right now. Thankfully my company sends us to recurrent every 12 months. Which puts me in an FSI building very regularly. I’m telling you I could fly the MEM RNAV 27 circle to Rwy 18R blindfolded with a broken arm and my sisters kids climbing all over the cockpit and still nail it within standards.

But that’s not training. That’s not making me a better, safer, more knowledgeable pilot.

Let’s have an engine failure on a warm day out of Aspen and the gear won’t come up.

Let’s fly over a convective area at altitude and have an engine failure and see just how far down single engine drift down is going to be. Sure you’re clearing the tops now but what if we lost one?

Let’s do 35kt crosswind landings in COS.

Or landing in Florida in moderate rain.
Or contaminated runway simulations
Or a myriad of other scenarios that they don’t cover at all that need to be seen in a simulator before you have to go do it for real.

I feel his sentiment though. I haven’t heard yet how much time he had in type. Hopefully if this statement of his is true he wasn’t speaking about his initial type training.

Edit to add show me any 1300 pilot in their first jet that isn’t a little too reliant on the autopilot. And even if true her lack of basic flying skills don’t mean • when you don’t have a tail. Given the scenario im pretty sure Bob Hoover wasn’t getting them out of it once it turned south.
Click to expand...
Too funny, and agree 100%. On day one of recurrent, start the roll, thinking to my self… ‘okay, here is where we lose oil pressure’…. LOL on the circle to land 18 right. Been retired for 3 years, still remember 1100’?
 
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