Lear FO needed

[Hernandezcfi]

Shiny Jet Syndrome: Being willing to fly an airplane for lower pay or substandard benefits, just to get a jump on your career.

Health insurance is the kicker. BCT is an expensive place to live. Take that plus the fact that you're going to have to buy your own insurance and you'll be flying for this guy for subsistence wages.

I'm not saying i've never done it, but I sure wouldn't do it again. Wish some of you would learn from my mistakes.

My individual health plan costs $140 a month here is S.Fla. I was told how much this job pays and I can assure you that the cost of health insurance will barely put a dent in your paycheck. I would snap this job up in a minute if I had the capital required to invest in the training, especially since I know I would get my money back in a year and make double what I would make my first two years at any Regional Airline.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

My individual health plan costs $140 a month here is S.Fla.

Gonna be single for the rest of your life?

I would snap this job up in a minute if I had the capital required to invest in the training

I don't really know how to explain this any differently. Let's say a Learjet type rating costs $10,000. (I think it's more right now, but just for the sake of argument)

You pay FSI and that money is gone. Even in a simple savings account it would have made you a few hundred bucks interest over that time. Potentially much better if invested properly.

Your employer, on the other hand, KEEPS his $10,000 -- earns interest on it as long as possible before repaying you for your "investment".

Look, you're obviously going to do what you want. It's a tough job market right now and this guy is not going to have any problem filling this position. Just don't expect a few of us who have been around the block a time or two to pat you on the back for accepting something like this.

The fact of the matter is it devalues the profession for everyone. (ESPECIALLY those of us who fly Learjets for a living!)

Best of luck.

 

[zmiller4]

Zap is absolutely correct.

I wouldn't consider instructing for a flight school that didn't offer benefits, let alone flying a multi-million dollar jet.

 

[Hernandezcfi]

Gonna be single for the rest of your life?


Uh...I have a wife and three kids. The wifes health plan takes care of her and the kids. ...And don't believe for a second that those "benies" she gets at her job don't get sucked out of her paycheck too. It's funny how people fall for frills! We all pay for benefits one way or the other. If I had an option of taking a job making $42,500 with "benefits" and a job making $50,000 with no benefits, I would take the $50k and get my own health & retirement plans.

Hey wouldn't it be great if a job that requires a degree be willing to hire you if you go out and get that degree...and then cover the cost for that degree? Who see's a problem with that?

 

[rjmore]

Sometimes you luck out, my benefits don't cost me anything. No premium, no copay, nothing and my paycheck doesn't suffer.

It was and still should be accepted practice that employers pay for the type rating. Having money is required to own an aircraft, I owned a brokerage for years. Operating costs as an industry rule include pilot training.

The degree analogy doesn't work. Many companies in many career fields require a self funded Bachelors degree. Most companies provide some assistance or completely pay for your Master's degree. In our business that Master's degree is a type rating. It WAS an industry practice to pay for the type until companies figured out that pilots would pay for it themselves.

 

[The Gardener]

Zap is absolutely correct.

I wouldn't consider instructing for a flight school that didn't offer benefits, let alone flying a multi-million dollar jet.

I work as a free lance instructor and provide for myself when it come to insurance. Am I crazy for earning a salary that I would bet a days pay is more than the average instructor gets, and I then I buy my own insurance? Works just fine for me.

However if you work for a regional airline and stuff yourself with MSG flavored top ramen between flights in recirculated air, well, you better get a good insurance plan. If you aren't interested people move along. Nothing more to see here!

 

[minitour]

I work as a free lance instructor and provide for myself when it come to insurance. Am I crazy for earning a salary that I would bet a days pay is more than the average instructor gets, and I then I buy my own insurance? Works just fine for me.

There are many differences between being a full time/career contract pilot/"free lance" instructor and an employee somewhere tied to a cell phone.

Who provides at least a large portion of health insurance is just one of those differences.

Without more details it's hard to comment on this particular job posting. Like Mike, the first things I'd want to know are: Pay? Upgrade? For someone who already has the training, this could be a great stepping stone. For me? I don't think I'll blow $8k on a LR SIC sim session.

-mini

 

[KLB]

The degree analogy doesn't work. Many companies in many career fields require a self funded Bachelors degree. Most companies provide some assistance or completely pay for your Master's degree. In our business that Master's degree is a type rating. It WAS an industry practice to pay for the type until companies figured out that pilots would pay for it themselves.

If I read the employee handbook correctly, I believe my company will even pay a portion of the furtherance of my education. I've got to investigate it a little further. I would be sweet if I could suck another type rating out of them and a masters.

 

[gtpilot]

Sometimes you luck out, my benefits don't cost me anything. No premium, no copay, nothing and my paycheck doesn't suffer.

You pay for the benefits one way or another - your employer actually pays above market rate for your health benefits - this works out nicely if you have health problems of any sort, but if you're young, healthy, don't smoke, and don't over eat then your company is making you pay for other people's health risks. Just because you don't see it come out of your pay check, doesn't mean you aren't paying extra for them.

The degree analogy doesn't work. Many companies in many career fields require a self funded Bachelors degree. Most companies provide some assistance or completely pay for your Master's degree. In our business that Master's degree is a type rating. It WAS an industry practice to pay for the type until companies figured out that pilots would pay for it themselves.

Most professional careers require a degree that you pay for. Some companies (not most) may offer this program, but again, you are paid less because of it. If it costs the company money that they could have just given you instead, you are essentially paid less. Nothing is free!

 

[rjmore]

You pay for the benefits one way or another - your employer actually pays above market rate for your health benefits - this works out nicely if you have health problems of any sort, but if you're young, healthy, don't smoke, and don't over eat then your company is making you pay for other people's health risks. Just because you don't see it come out of your pay check, doesn't mean you aren't paying extra for them.



Most professional careers require a degree that you pay for. Some companies (not most) may offer this program, but again, you are paid less because of it. If it costs the company money that they could have just given you instead, you are essentially paid less. Nothing is free!

That very well may be but my company is one of the highest paying employers of pilots in the world. I do not personally pay any premium for my health insurance. If I have a 100 kids from now until I die, I get paid the same amount of money yet all of my kids are covered.

As for the degree issue, I don't mind a company paying someone less until they get the higher degree. That isn't the point I'm making. In the scenario you are describing, one could get the job without buying the higher degree. In this case, you have to buy your training first and that is what people take issue with. It reduces the chances of hiring the best candidate because the best candidate might not be able to get a loan. Who would you rather pilot the airplane you just chartered? The best pilot for the job or the only guy that could get the loan?

I doubt anyone on either side of this issue is going to change their feelings so no reason to drag it out.

 

[gtpilot]

I doubt anyone on either side of this issue is going to change their feelings so no reason to drag it out.

I likely agree with you on this issue more than you'd think - healthy discussions are always worthwhile though!

As for the degree issue, I don't mind a company paying someone less until they get the higher degree. That isn't the point I'm making. In the scenario you are describing, one could get the job without buying the higher degree.

While I am not a proponent of PFT, there are few professional industries who offer to pay for basic college education (masters included). The question is - do we treat type ratings like basic education or like field certification. For example, as an engineer, I took several weeks of classes to be EPA RCRA qualified at company expense so that I could work on jobs they bid for. Would everyone consider this the equivalent of a type? As an engineer I might have even paid for the training myself because I could have walked away from the job and gotten another with equal or better pay because I now had better qualifications.

In this case, you have to buy your training first and that is what people take issue with. It reduces the chances of hiring the best candidate because the best candidate might not be able to get a loan. Who would you rather pilot the airplane you just chartered? The best pilot for the job or the only guy that could get the loan?

Unfortunately, many many people with great aptitude simply can't afford to learn to fly period. By this argument, are any of us the best pilot?

That very well may be but my company is one of the highest paying employers of pilots in the world. I do not personally pay any premium for my health insurance. If I have a 100 kids from now until I die, I get paid the same amount of money yet all of my kids are covered.

Sounds like you're in a good spot! High pay + great benefits is unusual and nice! Is you're company hiring? Too many people miss the value of this type of benefit when looking at jobs like the one posted. This job was mentioned as having a competitive salary - question everyone should ask, is it in line with other salaries or is it in line with the salaries plus the value of the benefits?