latest on minimum flight times?

Socal321 said:
Yes but that would serve them no useful purpose. That would only benefit the labor.
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If they're canceling flights because people are leaving in droves and they can't find anyone to replace them for $18k a year, it would serve a purpose to keep the company from folding.
 
kellwolf said:
If they're canceling flights because people are leaving in droves and they can't find anyone to replace them for $18k a year, it would serve a purpose to keep the company from folding.
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That's assuming the 1500 deal is passed. Otherwise they would just lower mins. See the whole point of this in the FAA's view is not raising compensation levels but to raise safety levels. It's very hard to justify a set amount of flight time, especially when it would cost so much for the companies which are in bed with the FAA.
 
Socal321 said:
That's assuming the 1500 deal is passed. Otherwise they would just lower mins. See the whole point of this in the FAA's view is not raising compensation levels but to raise safety levels. It's very hard to justify a set amount of flight time, especially when it would cost so much for the companies which are in bed with the FAA.
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True, but it's VERY difficult to argue (in most cases) that a 1500 hour guy is the same or less experienced as a 250 hour guy. I know one of the Congressional proposals had a list of items that would need to be ticked off, and there's no way a low time guy would be able to get them. Maybe specific hours doing specific things like cross countries, night or instrument. Or just say you need to meet the requirements of an ATP certificate to fly at the 121 level. All of the varied experience requirements (other than total time) are already there.
 
mojo6911 said:
I don't see why pilots can't push for a pilot/crewmember fee. $2 per ticket wouldn't stop anyone from buying a ticket, and it would significantly bump the pay for the guys in the front.
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Solution: tip jar!

No matter the size of your a/c (121 world), a buck per person average on a flight would be a start to split between the crew. However, it would ultimately be taxed and mgt would lower our hourly wages to compensate for the tips so it would all be a moot point.

Sigh.
 
kellwolf said:
True, but it's VERY difficult to argue (in most cases) that a 1500 hour guy is the same or less experienced as a 250 hour guy. I know one of the Congressional proposals had a list of items that would need to be ticked off, and there's no way a low time guy would be able to get them. Maybe specific hours doing specific things like cross countries, night or instrument. Or just say you need to meet the requirements of an ATP certificate to fly at the 121 level. All of the varied experience requirements (other than total time) are already there.
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Why do they need 1500hr FOs? They fixed it!!
 
Yea I dont agree at all with requiring an FO to have an ATP cert. ATP mins sure, but requiring them to have the actual cert done seems a bit much.
 
3enginejock said:
Yea I dont agree at all with requiring an FO to have an ATP cert. ATP mins sure, but requiring them to have the actual cert done seems a bit much.
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Why not? If it was a requirement they would give you your ATP at the same time they gave your worthless SIC type. It's the same check ride.
 
3enginejock said:
Yea I dont agree at all with requiring an FO to have an ATP cert. ATP mins sure, but requiring them to have the actual cert done seems a bit much.
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I have to go with Spira. Why not? It's just one more checkride. If you've already got the requirements (and a lot of regionals already require you to have the written done as it is), it's one ride with a DE, and it's done.
 
We need a frozen ATP. All of us at my company have to fly to ATP standards. There should be a two year period for new FOs to take the ATP written, and after achieving a satisfactory score plus obviously getting the SIC checkride completed back in new hire class - flying and meeting (if not exceeding) ATP standards - upon reaching 1500TT they shoud be issued an unfrozen ATP after performing Captain responsibilities during a 4 to 5 day non-upgrade but "PIC" responsibility training event.

Certainly not a concrete and only outlook of my opinion, but I think that's where we really need to go instead of requiring some flat number value.
 
surreal1221 said:
We need a frozen ATP. All of us at my company have to fly to ATP standards. There should be a two year period for new FOs to take the ATP written, and after achieving a satisfactory score plus obviously getting the SIC checkride completed back in new hire class - flying and meeting (if not exceeding) ATP standards - upon reaching 1500TT they shoud be issued an unfrozen ATP after performing Captain responsibilities during a 4 to 5 day non-upgrade but "PIC" responsibility training event.

Certainly not a concrete and only outlook of my opinion, but I think that's where we really need to go instead of requiring some flat number value.
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I could buy off on this. So, you're saying get the other requirements of the ATP, take the written, then when you get the TT requirement done, sort of a mini-checkride or IOE type event and you've got your ATP unfrozen?
 
surreal1221 said:
We need a frozen ATP. All of us at my company have to fly to ATP standards. There should be a two year period for new FOs to take the ATP written, and after achieving a satisfactory score plus obviously getting the SIC checkride completed back in new hire class - flying and meeting (if not exceeding) ATP standards - upon reaching 1500TT they shoud be issued an unfrozen ATP after performing Captain responsibilities during a 4 to 5 day non-upgrade but "PIC" responsibility training event.

Certainly not a concrete and only outlook of my opinion, but I think that's where we really need to go instead of requiring some flat number value.
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I like it as well....Great idea!:clap:
 
kellwolf said:
I could buy off on this. So, you're saying get the other requirements of the ATP, take the written, then when you get the TT requirement done, sort of a mini-checkride or IOE type event and you've got your ATP unfrozen?
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You got it. Except, no line flying - so no IOE.

It's totally separate from "Upgrade" to CA training too. Which is where the IOE will come in. In the above scenario, your confirming you can perform ATP tasks to ATP standards and act as a PIC - even though will not be qualified as one by your company with certain exceptions to be visited during one's Upgrade training.

Actual upgrade training could be reduced in the number of days - focusing more on being a professional Captain, CRM, Emergency / ADM, etc...

Still upgrade as ones seniority can hold of course.
 
I also think that IOE should be extended to at least 100 hours. Everyone knows that is the actual point where you really start to get a general feel for the whole show. The current standards are way too low. Some reputable airlines around the world, do IOE for weeks and months, not one or two trips. The Colgan CA was really fresh out of IOE, if they watched him a little longer then maybe the could have picked up on his bad habits. 20-30 hours is not enough to sign off a brand new CA or FO.
 
I wonder how many of the current airline pilots who are in favor of 1500tt and an ATP had their ATP paid for by their current employer...
 
liveupthere said:
I wonder how many of the current airline pilots who are in favor of 1500tt and an ATP had their ATP paid for by their current employer...
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I have no real dog in this fight, but I sure wouldnt mind at all if the paid for mine. The only difference between my initial PC and the Captain's was 2 maneuvers at best. I wonder if it would cost the company more if they gave new hires ATP's in their initial checkride....
 
liveupthere said:
I wonder how many of the current airline pilots who are in favor of 1500tt and an ATP had their ATP paid for by their current employer...
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Except for the 07 hiring boom ATP mins, and a completed ATP written were required to get on with any regional.

The SIC check is the same as an ATP checkride. If you've taken the written and fill out a 8710 then your initial checkride can serve as an ATP ceheckride.
 
liveupthere said:
I wonder how many of the current airline pilots who are in favor of 1500tt and an ATP had their ATP paid for by their current employer...
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I'm one, but that doesn't change my opinion one bit. Some of the majors require a degree, too. Some don't. If it's a listed requirement, then it's something you need to get the job. If you don't want to check the boxes, then you don't want the job. Simple as that. People gave me crap because I took the ATP written because I was spending money. Well, the job app required it.
 
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