latest on minimum flight times?

C

coryk88

New Member
So what is the latest with the minimum flight time requirements to go to an airline? I heard it has stalled, but was down to 800 total time and that could be further reduced by going to a accredited aviation university?
 
Average minimums that are programed in airline computers are to search for a minimum of 5,000 hours total time.

Only right now due to the many out of work guys. later it will go down
 
I'm sure it is right now, but what's the latest on the bill that was working it's away thru congress after the Colgan crash that would set a hard minimun? I think the farther away we get from this crash people will simply forget, and in 3-5 years when retirements kick in they flight times will drop yet again. Just my thought though.
 
I think there was something that went through congress directing the FAA to create new minimum guidelines at 800hrs and of they didn't do it within a year it would automatically go to 1500/ATP.
 
coryk88 said:
I'm sure it is right now, but what's the latest on the bill that was working it's away thru congress after the Colgan crash that would set a hard minimun? I think the farther away we get from this crash people will simply forget, and in 3-5 years when retirements kick in they flight times will drop yet again. Just my thought though.
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If they actually set 1500 as a minimum to apply to a regional, they will have about 2 pilot show up for class during the next hiring wave because no one is training right now. It does not make sense to put in high entry barriers for something that is not worth the sacrifice. Management and the FAA of course talk about this behind closed doors, that's why this bill is slowly being watered down. But I highly doubt they will add any kind of ATP flight requirement, I know it sucks, but it'd be like adding a 4 year degree requirement to drive a city bus.
 
Socal321 said:
If they actually set 1500 as a minimum to apply to a regional, they will have about 2 pilot show up for class during the next hiring wave because no one is training right now. It does not make sense to put in high entry barriers for something that is not worth the sacrifice. Management and the FAA of course talk about this behind closed doors, that's why this bill is slowly being watered down. But I highly doubt they will add any kind of ATP flight requirement, I know it sucks, but it'd be like adding a 4 year degree requirement to drive a city bus.
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Maybe they (airlines) should make it worth it then. Not by lowering the bar but increasing the pay.
 
Having seen a number of Mesa jets I was seriously disappointed on their shininess quotient. It was almost like they weren't shiny at all, maybe in fact dirty!
 
mxflyer said:
Maybe they (airlines) should make it worth it then. Not by lowering the bar but increasing the pay.
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The crazy thing is that back in 06-08 I think we were getting close to that. In many companies the CP was flying the line, not because of the nostalgia and the love of flying... no because if he/she didn't the flight would be cancelled.
 
Socal321 said:
If they actually set 1500 as a minimum to apply to a regional, they will have about 2 pilot show up for class during the next hiring wave because no one is training right now. It does not make sense to put in high entry barriers for something that is not worth the sacrifice. Management and the FAA of course talk about this behind closed doors, that's why this bill is slowly being watered down. But I highly doubt they will add any kind of ATP flight requirement, I know it sucks, but it'd be like adding a 4 year degree requirement to drive a city bus.
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I


I had 2500 hours of flying/insructing when I went to my commuter job. I was under qualified and had to ramp up quickly.
 
Socal321 said:
If they actually set 1500 as a minimum to apply to a regional, they will have about 2 pilot show up for class during the next hiring wave because no one is training right now. It does not make sense to put in high entry barriers for something that is not worth the sacrifice. Management and the FAA of course talk about this behind closed doors, that's why this bill is slowly being watered down.
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You have it right but are coming at it from the wrong angle. If there were no one to hire in the next wave, that would be a good thing! Airlines would then be competing for labor and that would put leverage in the hands of the pilot groups to improve things. Airlines today arent worth the sacrifice to most, and that is because labor is cheap and its everywhere. We are competing for the jobs, not the other way around. That might start making the job worth the sacrifices if improvements can be made to attract a small applicant pool.

And yes, management is going to do their closed door talks to fight this, and yes it is because they want the applicant pool to be large. They want it this way so we continue to compete for the jobs so they have no incentive to increase QoL or compensation.

Dont be afraid of the days when the jobs are competing for us, dream of it.

Now with all that said, 1500 hours isnt going to slow things down, its just going to put career expectations where they used to be. Flight instruct until you can fly 135 and do that until you can fly 121. 1500 hours wont get you far though will pilots still on the street, so dont worry about it.
 
Socal321 said:
If they actually set 1500 as a minimum to apply to a regional, they will have about 2 pilot show up for class during the next hiring wave because no one is training right now. It does not make sense to put in high entry barriers for something that is not worth the sacrifice. Management and the FAA of course talk about this behind closed doors, that's why this bill is slowly being watered down. But I highly doubt they will add any kind of ATP flight requirement, I know it sucks, but it'd be like adding a 4 year degree requirement to drive a city bus.
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Pinnacle's looking at 60 within the next couple of MONTHS. Most (if not all) XJ furloughs. Mesa's got a lot of guys on the street, but I don't know what their total time is. Same with XJT. Guys have been grinding away at the CFI gig for 2+ years now, too. In the short term, I don't see 1500TT being a problem. In the long term, like others have said, they'll actually have to make the job more attractive to high time applicants. Point is, there's no government oversight to airline training programs and there's not government minimums for flight time in the right seat. That gives us guys in the left seat headaches. I'm not saying ALL the low time guys are sandbags in the seat, but a good percentage of them are. It's not their fault, they simply don't have the experience that a crew member in an airliner should have. However, they'll work for peanuts, which makes airline management very happy. They PROBABLY won't cause an accident, but even at 980 hours, if my CA had croaked on me in my first 6 months, it would have been "interesting."

Even then, it depends on the type of 1500 hours the applicant brings. If a guy tools around the pattern at his same uncontrolled airport in a 152 for 1500 hours, he's gonna have the same essential experience as a 300-500 guy. Now, if someone gets out in the ATC system and flies cross countries in weather and into challenging airports for 700 hours, he's potentially gonna have even more experience than most 1500 hour guys. It's really a crap shoot, so you have to play the odds. The odds say someone with 1500 hours is gonna have more experience than someone with 500 hours. Without a laundry list of requirements (which was also part of one of the proposals) it's the simplest method of weeding guys out.
 
I can't afford to take the pay cut to go to a regional right now, even if one of the nicer ones were hiring. Most of the Mesa furloughs have thousands of hours, except the last 100 or so.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I can't afford to take the pay cut to go to a regional right now, even if one of the nicer ones were hiring. Most of the Mesa furloughs have thousands of hours, except the last 100 or so.
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It's an interesting industry when guys go to the regionals until they've got the time to get the better paying freight job.....
 
I don't see why pilots can't push for a pilot/crewmember fee. $2 per ticket wouldn't stop anyone from buying a ticket, and it would significantly bump the pay for the guys in the front.
 
Because we know we wouldn't see one cent of it. Somehow it would end up as just another part of another management bonus.
 
mojo6911 said:
I don't see why pilots can't push for a pilot/crewmember fee. $2 per ticket wouldn't stop anyone from buying a ticket, and it would significantly bump the pay for the guys in the front.
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I've thought the same thing to. But also a $2 fee increase for everyone? Its really only $1.25 after taxes...
 
kellwolf said:
It's an interesting industry when guys go to the regionals until they've got the time to get the better paying freight job.....
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My company was banking on a lot of regional furloughees that work here to be called back a lot sooner. A lot of guys have turned down there call back and chose to stay while others haven't recieved the call yet. It's a pretty tough call on whether to go back to the 121 side where there is a higher earning potential or stay flying freight where they're making decent money and will get turbine PIC time faster, but pay tops out pretty quickly.
 
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