Latest Eagle AIP rejected

MikeD said:
All,

Make your comments minus the personal attacks. If that's not possible, then don't post.

I know this forum section is a complete cluster, and I've said as much before. Humor me and make a halfhearted attempt at proving me wrong.

It doesn't get any simpler, people.
Click to expand...

With all due respect Mike, there is nothing wrong with the forum section. If users are posting anywhere at JC that is not in keeping with the site decorum, then the mods need to take care of it.
 
DE727UPS said:
With all due respect Mike, there is nothing wrong with the forum section. If users are posting anywhere at JC that is not in keeping with the site decorum, then the mods need to take care of it.
Click to expand...

Personal attacks aren't acceptable, and the ire that goes on here that delves from disagreement to disrespectful disagreement, isn't acceptable, and is pretty unprofessional. If you can't see that Don, then I don't know what to tell you.

My advice to the masses here and holding up a mirror to whats going on here IS the "mod taking care of it." At least an initial step in doing so.
 
MikeD said:
My advice to the masses here and holding up a mirror to whats going on here IS the "mod taking care of it." At least an initial step in doing so.
Click to expand...

Or, since it's really just about 5 guys that throw about 95% of the mud, instead of decrying the lack of brains and ability for intelligent rational thought of an entire community, how about just calling out the mud throwers and telling them to grow the hell up or refrain from posting?
 
BobDDuck said:
Or, since it's really just about 5 guys that throw about 95% of the mud, instead of decrying the lack of brains and ability for intelligent rational thought of an entire community, how about just calling out the mud throwers and telling them to grow the hell up or refrain from posting?
Click to expand...

That's what I am doing. Because people know who they are, and who my commentary applies to. If it doesn't apply to you, you know it. And there is alot of brain and rational thought here, even from the mud throwers......that's not the issue, and I know you know that........the issue is the presentation and intolerance, which devolves into namecalling from those this applies to; makes the brains and rational thought that is presented here, lost in the sea of mud.
 
embraer07 said:
Selective reading at it's best. Go read Pedro's email again. He specifically stated that Eagle will not be shutting down because Eagle is much more than airplanes. He specifically mentioned that the GROUND HANDLING side of Eagle will continue to operate.

His implication is that Eagle will continue to exist as only a ground handling service while shutting down the flying operation.

I'm not saying that they will follow through on that threat, but let's be very clear about what was said and not said in that email. I'm sick of all the hardcore NO voters jumping for joy like they won some major victory thinking the company has admitted that we won't be shut down.

Pedro was subtly threatening the pilots with that email and it was in response to the childish one our MEC put out the day before.
Click to expand...

Seems to me from the outside that it's pretty pointless to assert that you exactly know what the implications are considering where this letter is coming from. This guys writes this letter as if they worked in good faith to try and negotiate something fair with the union when in reality they specifically said they would "ComAir" the company which IS liquidation. This sob story about poor American being "forced" to shop the flying even though they so desperately wanted to give it to eagle is just a load of crap. You might be tired of "these no voters" jumping around but I think it's more the point that they decided to take a stand for better or worse. Sounds like you were willing to just take what was given?
 
jynxyjoe said:
Didn't see a phone number. Damn. 60 EMBs is about 600 pilots, that's about what we'll have left by this time next year, could be a great fit. Tell him to call Guum-ball? 800.603.4594
Click to expand...

Put it in Dallas's missed connection section...lol
 
I have a few serious questions. Seems confusing what American Eagle (the brand) is doing (not Envoy the airline) or is it Envoy the airline?

1. America Eagle (the brand) is the umbrella *subsidiary of American Airlines Group (AAG) correct?

2. Is this American Eagle *separate from Envoy? Or are they one in the same?

3. Can America Eagle (not Envoy) hire pilots and staff pilots for Republic Airways, Mesa, ExpressJet, flying their routes under American Eagle (the brand)??? (Again not Envoy)

4. So why is American Airline Group through its subsidiary "American Eagle (the brand which 5 other carriers fly under)" hiring/*guaranteeing interviews or marketing Pipeline Programs and other collegiate agreements (ex: Spartan, OU, and 20-50 other universities) as American Eagle which is a brand in which 5 other carriers fly under; but not as Envoy Airline which is where these perspective pilots will actually work for, and be managed by.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Amer...on-of-pilots-to-avoid-shortage-245915291.html

5. Why is American Eagle (the brand/subsidiary) confusing the hell out of people? Is Envoy not going away eventually per American Eagle CEO's threat? Or is it the American Eagle the brand which he is threatening will go away in a few years (not Envoy).

6. Did management ever say they will shutdown or scale back Envoy Airlines?

7. Should the link above, and quote below not say Envoy? Should hiring and marketing not say Envoy since American Eagle is just the "brand" now which 5 other carriers fly under. Envoy being the actual carrier.

8. Can Unions file a lawsuit against this?

Thank you,

Hopefully your all not as confused as I am.

"An alliance between Spartan College and American Eagle Airlines means a student with aspirations to serve as a pilot for a major airline is now a step closer to realizing his or her career goals,” said Peter Harris, president and CEO of Spartan College."
 
It's like claiming I fly for Berkshire Hathaway when I only work for NetJet. Or claiming I work for Berkshire Hathaway, when I only work for Geico Insurance. There has to be some illegality issues with all this American Airline Group, American Eagle (affiliate regional flying brand with 5 carriers flying under the American Eagle brand), and then there is Envoy a carrier.

It's like when Comair Airlines (subsidiary regional carrier of Delta Airlines) owned a flight school it called "Delta Flight Academy", It would be like a Delta Flight Academy flight instructor claiming to be working for Delta Airlines as a flight instructor for DELTA AIRLINES. Or marketing by the school as " If you enter our program you will be be a flight instructor for Delta Airlines."

Watch this video

Boils my blood!

Should it say Envoy or can they get away with claiming "AMERICAN AIRLINES." There has got to be some illegal marketing tactics. Some ammo I hope union leaders and their lawyers are look into.
 
Last edited:
ScorpionStinger said:
I have a few serious questions. Seems confusing what American Eagle (the brand) is doing (not Envoy the airline) or is it Envoy the airline?

1. America Eagle (the brand) is the umbrella *subsidiary of American Airlines Group (AAG) correct?
Click to expand...
Incorrect. The name American Eagle is now the branding for all of American's regional feed. Perhaps some history would make better sense of it all. Back in the 90's AA began buying up all of its regional feed and combining them into a single airline - American Eagle Airlines. Until 2001ish, AE represented all of AA's regional feed. After the TWA merger, AA acquired all of TWA's regional feed which included code shares with TSA and Chautaqua. These codeshare flights were branded "American Connection" to separate them from American Eagle Airlines and to prevent confusion. Sometime last year (if memory serves) AA announced it would be changing American Eagle Airlines' name to something new and rebranding what was called "American Connection" to the name "American Eagle". I believe this coincided with the changes in scope clause following the bankruptcy and the diversification of AA's regional feed. In January of this year, American Eagle Airlines announced it would officially be changing its name to Envoy. This is not yet official, and it will not be until sometime in March. Therefore, for at least a year now, we have had American Eagle Airlines and American Eagle (AA's regional feed brand) existing at the same time. This is what has caused such confusion.

ScorpionStinger said:
2. Is this American Eagle *separate from Envoy? Or are they one in the same?
Click to expand...
See above. Right now, you have have to distinguish between American Eagle Airlines and American Eagle (AA's regional feed brand).

ScorpionStinger said:
3. Can America Eagle (not Envoy) hire pilots and staff pilots for Republic Airways, Mesa, ExpressJet, flying their routes under American Eagle (the brand)??? (Again not Envoy)
Click to expand...
No. American Eagle (AA's regional feed brand) is not an airline. It is merely a brand name just like Delta Connection, United Express, US Airways Express, etc. AA has entered into codeshare agreements with Skywest, Expressjet, and Republic to do flying under its regional feed brand.

ScorpionStinger said:
4. So why is American Airline Group through its subsidiary "American Eagle (the brand which 5 other carriers fly under)" hiring/*guaranteeing interviews or marketing Pipeline Programs and other collegiate agreements (ex: Spartan, OU, and 20-50 other universities) as American Eagle which is a brand in which 5 other carriers fly under; but not as Envoy Airline which is where these perspective pilots will actually work for, and be managed by.
Click to expand...
ScorpionStinger said:
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Amer...on-of-pilots-to-avoid-shortage-245915291.html
Click to expand...
Again, see above. This seems misleading, because AE's new name is supposed to be Envoy, right? Well, as previously stated, the name change is not official yet and what this article is referring to is American Eagle Airlines, not American Eagle (AA's regional feed brand).

ScorpionStinger said:
5. Why is American Eagle (the brand/subsidiary) confusing the hell out of people? Is Envoy not going away eventually per American Eagle CEO's threat? Or is it the American Eagle the brand which he is threatening will go away in a few years (not Envoy).
Click to expand...
The rebranding is confusing and will be until the name change is official. Is Envoy going away? We're not really sure yet. In the initial contract negotiations, the union was told that American Eagle Airlines needed to accept concessions or would be "comaired". The company later elaborated by saying that they would slowly wind down Eagle over a 3-4 year period as they handed flying off to other regional carriers and then shut down the company once it reached a certain size. As you can read for yourself in this forum, Pedro Fabregas' letter following the union voting down the AIP was somewhat cryptic. It says that the airline will not be shutdown, but also seemed to imply that it would only continue as a ground handling operation. There has already been some debate on this, but I believe that Fabregas's letter was intentionally cryptic because he doesn't know exactly what AA is going to do now.

ScorpionStinger said:
6. Did management ever say they will shutdown or scale back Envoy Airlines?
Click to expand...
Yes.

ScorpionStinger said:
7. Should the link above, and quote below not say Envoy? Should hiring and marketing not say Envoy since American Eagle is just the "brand" now which 5 other carriers fly under. Envoy being the actual carrier.
Click to expand...
No, as previously stated, the name change is not official yet.

ScorpionStinger said:
8. Can Unions file a lawsuit against this?
Click to expand...
Lawsuit over the branding confusion? I guess I'm not sure what you mean here.
 
"There has got to be some illegal marketing tactics. Some ammo I hope union leaders and their lawyers are look into."

This kind of crap has been going on for years. They dangle a carrot they don't own. Promises, promises. You can bite on it and they will kick you and the promise to the curb so fast it will make your head spin. If your dad's a trial lawyer I'd so go ahead and sue da btardss.
 
ScorpionStinger said:
It's like when Comair Airlines (subsidiary regional carrier of Delta Airlines) owned a flight school it called "Delta Flight Academy", It would be like a Delta Flight Academy flight instructor claiming to be working for Delta Airlines as a flight instructor for DELTA AIRLINES. Or marketing by the school as " If you enter our program you will be be a flight instructor for Delta Airlines."
Click to expand...

Oh yes, that happened all the time.

I was at my commuter hotel bar back in DFW years ago, having a beer and a plate of chicken (Leeerooyyyyy Jenkins!) and this guy was dying to tell me how he was a Delta captain.

That's cool, what ever. I don't care.

Turns out that he was an ASA captain on the CRJ and how when the seniority lists are combined, he should be able to hold the mad dog.

Ok...
 
Derg said:
Oh yes, that happened all the time.
I was at my commuter hotel bar back in DFW years ago, having a beer and a plate of chicken (Leeerooyyyyy Jenkins!) and this guy was dying to tell me how he was a Delta captain.
That's cool, what ever. I don't care.
Turns out that he was an ASA captain on the CRJ and how when the seniority lists are combined, he should be able to hold the mad dog.
Ok...
Click to expand...

Lol, seriously do u see the Madness!? See the mental damage being cause!?

Frigin dillusional pilots man! Must be either be the radiation, or the radiation, or the radiation, or.... brainwashing marketing scam. Did i mention radiation?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top