My observation has been that a generation of controllers was trained and certified on “COVID traffic” and can’t work “normal” levels of traffic. Meanwhile, airlines took COVID as an opportunity to trim off the expensive top of the seniority list and upgrade times and experience levels plummeted. It’s literally an accident waiting to happen.
LAS Incident
- Thread starter inigo88
- Start date
I always liked it because I didn’t have to bother changing frequencies immediately after an IMC takeoff, or a formation takeoff, or a combo of both.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
Yep that’s the reason for it, especially on the older fighters where the radio controls were much harder to reach. Same reason why on a PAR we don’t switch you to tower til after landing rollout
nabbyfan
Well-Known Member
This, and also the FAA has put us in a spot where we basically can’t afford to wash anybody out. I’ve been assigned 6 day weeks for the better part of 8.5 years, the trainee that sucks is my only chance of getting off that and to better days.
They’ve bungled the staffing so badly that people are being rammed through the system nationwide because we need the bodies. The standards to certify are far lower than they used to be.
Add in that people who certified on COVID traffic are now instructing new controllers, and that we’re basically all exhausted from being over worked, and this is what happens.
The good news is the FAA can’t even admit they need to get us off 6 day weeks. God forbid services were curtailed to allow me and my coworkers more than 4 days off a month.
Left console mid and aft. Pain in the ass location, but the only place they could go and had to be manually manipulated, in all the jets I flew. Easy spatial D if moving to look down at them. Same thing I liked about PAR, single frequency to rollout indeed, with the landing clearance from you. Lowest PAR I ever did was 100-1/2 v 3/4, and the final controller was a pro, even calling out as I’m crossing the perimeter fence and over the approach light system as it was still obscured until it started to become visible a second later. Ironically, was a ROKAF controller. Though there were darn good PAR controllers in all of the services.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
I…was not one of these lol. I wouldn’t get you killed, you’d land safely, just may take 2 attempts lol.
inigo88
Composite-lover
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
This is exactly what so many people claim to want, which is they are running it just like a business. Next they’ll be selling ATC facilities to shell corporations and leasing them back to the FAA. I would expect not to see any of the usual free market enthusiasts complaining about all of this.
Too easy and, well, you'll just get another Administrator that is going to spend a number of years to catch up, form a team and, at the end of the day ask "Why isn't the system working"?
What's a lot harder and probably more expensive?
This:
@NovemberEcho, @RetiredATLATC and @greg1016 - Are there more incidents or simply heightened awareness of incidents that occur? If you could name three things to improve safety, if money were no object, what would they be? Why is the A350 cool and the 787 not?
But decaptiating the Administration may be worse than saying "See, I need money and resources" when you know that's what the next person is going to do after blue ribbon hearings and you've just wasted more time. I don't know. I really don't know WTF I'm talking about because I fly airplanes.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
To continue with my above comment, seeing the usual suspects acting shocked about this is like when the WSJ did an exposé on Boeing’s QC issues.
JordanD
Chinese Food Enthusiast
Don’t they already contract out smaller towers at some airports? IIRC SQL has a contracted tower and that’s a busy airport right next to SFO.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
They have and still do this at every NAS I've operated from. Though the positive check-in thing sounds like USAF, we don't really do that except for tactical freqs, it is just assumed your wingmen followed.
I wonder how they can legally force you to work 6 day weeks indefinitely. It's like they are holding you hostage and you have no say over your schedule. I'm amazed there's not a lot of attrition with people being abused that way.
NFCTs are a thing indeed at some smaller airports. However they still follow the same refs that the fed ATC facilities do.
Unlike some things the fed government wants to delve into that aren’t under its purview, the National Airspace System is. And hence, it needs to be operated effectively and safely. It’s one thing that can’t be run like a business. That doesn’t mean to just burn money with it, but it needs the flexibility to spend what is needed to ensure the highest degree of safety.
All USN/USMC, and some US Army still has them. Most USAF bases CONUS have decommissioned them, with overseas bases hanging on to them.
inigo88
Composite-lover
You’re right of course, and “the right answer” is going to be a lot more nuanced. Congressional oversight may be questionably effective anyway given that congress is the body that is insufficiently funding the FAA to begin with.
Anecdotally though the FAA has a reputation of being a bureaucratic, middle-manager heavy organization. So rather than decapitating the agency by periodically firing the administrator, which impedes progress towards a solution, how do we change the culture and motivate all those middle managers to accept that baselining 6-day workweeks for a skeleton crew of controllers is unsustainable, unacceptable and risks another major air disaster?
Has the 6-day week thing survived because it makes a lot of middle managers look good? Like was said earlier in this thread less people = less money spent. How do we change that incentive structure?
All USN/USMC, and some US Army still has them. Most USAF bases CONUS have decommissioned them, with overseas bases hanging on to them.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
It’s possible because it was a training base so student F-15/22 pilots
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
If you routinely bang in on your overtime they can give you a sick leave letter which can result in suspension. This isn’t enforced equally though, we have people at my facility who don’t work any of their scheduled OT and nothing comes of it. My coworker who came from Waco tower said someone received a letter because they banged out on 4 Fridays in a year and that was considered a pattern.
And if everyone decides they don’t want to work their overtime anymore it will be considered a job action.
