Lapse tRate....

beasly

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

Something has been bugging me about lapse rate.

I read that outside the atmosphere--in space--if you are in the sunshine, it is hot--damn hot--almost as hot as O-Town in the summertime.

If you are on the ground in the summer in 0-Town it is hot.

Now, here is what gets me, when you climb, things get cooler.

Where does it start getting hot again? above the Tropopause?

Is there a 'reverse lapse rate'?

Another thing that gets me about Lapse Rate is the standard 2 degrees F/Thousand Ft. Which is linear--which doesn't sound right.

Anybody else think about this stuff?

Cordially,

b.
 
Where does it start getting hot again? above the Tropopause?

According to the standard atmosphere model, yes. Then there is another "pause", whereupon it starts getting cooler again with altitude. Then another pause, then it starts getting hot again with altitude.

Which is linear--which doesn't sound right.

All the standard lapse rates are linear....by definition. These lapse rates only approximate reality.

Anybody else think about this stuff?

Yes.
 
I read that outside the atmosphere--in space--if you are in the sunshine, it is hot--damn hot--almost as hot as O-Town in the summertime.

It doesn't make much sense to talk about "hot" in the vacuum of space, nor of lapse rates. While the solar radiation would indeed severely burn you, it passes effortlessly through the void of space, which has a temperature very close to absolute zero. So, it's not "hot" in space at all. Nor is it "cold". The Kelvin scale is based on an absolute zero, where all atomic activity stops; yielding zero blackbody radiation. "Hot and cold" are merely relative terms used when dealing with interval notation temperature scales such as Fahrenheit and Celsius.
 
Also, none of the Seminoles, Duchesses, C340A's ,172's or warriors that I have flown get up that high, so I haven't thought this stuff through...

b.

Slap a couple of jet engines on them, get some oxygen tanks, and get RVSM certified. Then you will be rolling in style
 
Was thinking of something along these lines teh other day and havent looked into it yet. Did NASA or anyone test out the spacesuits and what not before sending astronauts into space/on spacewalks?
 
Also, none of the Seminoles, Duchesses, C340A's ,172's or warriors that I have flown get up that high, so I haven't thought this stuff through..

Yep. For me, the two degrees Celsius or five degrees Fahrenheit per 1,000 feet works just fine.

And it explains why in the summer it may be 80 degrees in Denver but only 60 in Breckenridge and make me feel like a damn fool for packing shorts!
 
It doesn't make much sense to talk about "hot" in the vacuum of space, nor of lapse rates. While the solar radiation would indeed severely burn you, it passes effortlessly through the void of space, which has a temperature very close to absolute zero. So, it's not "hot" in space at all. Nor is it "cold". The Kelvin scale is based on an absolute zero, where all atomic activity stops; yielding zero blackbody radiation. "Hot and cold" are merely relative terms used when dealing with interval notation temperature scales such as Fahrenheit and Celsius.


Now that is interesting. Thanks!

b.
 
Where does it start getting hot again? above the Tropopause?
Is there a 'reverse lapse rate'?
1. The mesopause is as cold as it gets, it is the boundary between the mesosphere and the thermosphere about 300,000 to 350,000 ft. We talking x-15, icbm, or virgin galatic altitudes here. It gets warmer from there.

2. The ELR varies as it is "actual or observed" and may have an inversion in the troposphere. That why the "standard lapse rate" is ISA.

3. Dry and wet adiabatic lapse rates are another based on definition, and where it is useful to us is to determine the stability of the air by comparing with the ELR. absolutely stable, conditionally unstable, absolutely unstable
 
1. The mesopause is as cold as it gets, it is the boundary between the mesosphere and the thermosphere about 300,000 to 350,000 ft. We talking x-15, icbm, or virgin galatic altitudes here. It gets warmer from there.

2. The ELR varies as it is "actual or observed" and may have an inversion in the troposphere. That why the "standard lapse rate" is ISA.

3. Dry and wet adiabatic lapse rates are another based on definition, and where it is useful to us is to determine the stability of the air by comparing with the ELR. absolutely stable, conditionally unstable, absolutely unstable


Very useful. Thank you.

I had to read that twice though because I read "menopuase is as cold as it gets" the first time.

:rolleyes:

b
 
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