Landing without a clearance - What would you do?

One of our crews (wasn't me) landed here with out a clearance. Who knows why but they never switched over to tower. After rolling out they realized what happened and called up tower as they cleared the runway.Tower said that they must have stepped on him when he cleared them to land, but he never got a read back, but it was ok.

That said, I'd be going around by 300 feet if I haven't got a clearance to land.
 
Chief Captain said:
Can you expand on that statement a bit more please? From my limited knowledge of law, I was under the impression that the judge has now set a precedent that can be applied to future cases.
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I spoke with our ASAP coordinator about this two days ago. The way the agreements are worded they are between the company, the union and the FAA. While it is possible this judge set a precedent by deciding this way (and for those who didn't hear, the company somehow as able to extract names and information from confidential data and then went after the pilots for violations) it doesn't automatically apply to other ASAP programs.
 
I thought ASAP really only worked with "sole source reporting". It would seem that if you landed without being cleared and the tower pushed it, its a runway incursion, and it would be reported anyway. Sure, file an ASAP, but if you are caught, you could be violated, no?

Best to go around I think and file an ASAP for not switching to tower. Safer too, unless you are in a fuel emergency.
 
granlistillo said:
I thought ASAP really only worked with "sole source reporting". It would seem that if you landed without being cleared and the tower pushed it, its a runway incursion, and it would be reported anyway. Sure, file an ASAP, but if you are caught, you could be violated, no?
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I think the rule is that if you file the report, you either don't get in trouble, or they go easy on you. I'm not too sure though.
 
Chief Captain said:
I think the rule is that if you file the report, you either don't get in trouble, or they go easy on you. I'm not too sure though.
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ASAP is not the same as a nasa report, but usually filed concurrently. My understanding is that each airline has a different program negotiated with the mec and approved by the controlling fsdo. My point is that an asap only keeps you out of trouble (including certificate action), if it wasnt flagrant, intentional and that the asap is the sole source (that means it wasnt brought to attention of management or the FAA chain) from another source. IE, the tower making a report of a runway incursion.
 
Being based out of ATL, I can tell you, get over to tower and keep their operation running. There are guys who have landed without a clearance, but they were cleared to land...get it. Tower will confirm their clearance and the message was garbled.
If you switch from tower to approach, they know it. If you can't get a word in, do it the FAF. You will pretty much always switch there except for PRM approaches when they switch you over upon intercepting the LOC.

Once you are on the ground...keep rolling. I have landed on 26R and not talked to ground until almost onto F while on the V loop. they want to keep everything rolling. They have ground radar and are watching where you are at.
 
BobDDuck said:
One of our crews (wasn't me) landed here with out a clearance. Who knows why but they never switched over to tower. After rolling out they realized what happened and called up tower as they cleared the runway.Tower said that they must have stepped on him when he cleared them to land, but he never got a read back, but it was ok.
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Been there, done that...though it as a touch and go in the Air Force.

When I finally talked to tower they were as kind and accommodating as possible.

However, there was the time I got kicked out of Dobbins ARB. :D
 
And the ATC guys in ATL are all really great.

They just got rid of the new "descend via" STARs due to numerous amounts of pilot deviations. I never saw what was so hard about the things, but I guess they had a lot of guys descending into departure corridors or busting the "at or above" fixes. Now they are simply down to speed restrictions, but today we were told to ignore that as well. We'll see what happens tomorrow!

Yesterday a Northwest guy busted an altitude and he knew he screwed up bad. (I asked the captain if he had him in sight as we were following...he said NO, so i told him "right there, the guy with his tail tucked between his wings!").
We listened to NW from then on, and usually ground is the one to give the phone number, but they let the guy off the hook without incident...probably because no FAA guys were around at the time. The FAA guys require the ATC controllers to bust the pilots (watch out for the PRM approaches as they will call you on the monitor frequency)
 
wheredhego said:
Yesterday a Northwest guy busted an altitude and he knew he screwed up bad. (I asked the captain if he had him in sight as we were following...he said NO, so i told him "right there, the guy with his tail tucked between his wings!").
We listened to NW from then on, and usually ground is the one to give the phone number, but they let the guy off the hook without incident...probably because no FAA guys were around at the time. The FAA guys require the ATC controllers to bust the pilots (watch out for the PRM approaches as they will call you on the monitor frequency)
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Don't assume the guy got away with it. It's not unheard of for the FAA to audit tapes randomly and go after both the controller and the pilot after the fact. An ASAP program WILL protect you in that case.
 
I know if I were the NW guy I would have submitted my NASA report the next day. Who knows what will happen. The tapes do get audited, but i'm not sure how closely they look at them.​
 
A few months back at IAH a flight either put the wrong frequency or just plain forgot, but either case landed without talking to tower and as they were exiting the runway they realized their error and tower simply said: There you are, in a happy sarcastic voice, and simply asked for gate. That was all.

I understand all the FARs and blah blahs, but really you are going into a Class B as a part 121 carrier, they have you on radar and pretty much know what you'll be doing, not like it's going to cause confusion at the airport. Go around will def set the chain of chaos.
 
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