Landing Question

Sisson2011

Well-Known Member
Are you aloud to land on the threshold markings at the beginning of the runway (sometimes called the piano keys), or are those just aloud for takeoff? I always thought the arrows were what signified you can takeoff but not land on.

Matt
 

RICHARD5

Well-Known Member
Are you aloud to land on the threshold markings at the beginning of the runway (sometimes called the piano keys), or are those just aloud for takeoff? I always thought the arrows were what signified you can takeoff but not land on.

Matt
The "piano keys" come after the arrows. The arrows signify a displaced threshold. You are correct, you should not touch down before reaching the displaced threshold although you can use that portion of the runway for the take-off roll. And yes, you are allowed to land on the threshold marking however to do so leaves you little margin if there is a sudden downdraft or you misjudged your flare, etc. This becomes very important when flying where you can expect mechanical turbulence due to terrain, trees, or structures.
 

Old Dominion Flyer

Well-Known Member
Landing on the threshold markings is permitted. This is because they are located on the usable portion of the runway. The arrows of which you speak are the markings for the displaced threshold, which may be used for taxiing, takeoff, and landing rollout, but not for touchdown. As you approach a runway with a displaced threshold you will see the displaced threshold(arrows) and then the threshold(piano keys).
 

troopernflight

Well-Known Member
Matt,
Technically, yes you can land on the threshold lines, but typically you would want to touch down in the touchdown zone markings (usually located between the runway numbers and the aim point marking on precision instrument runways). The arrows that you refer to are when there is a displaced threshold, and in this case the area before the threshold (before the solid white line) can only be used for takeoff.
BTW, the word you used "aloud" should be spelled "allowed". Aloud would be used if you were talking about something you heard "aloud", rather than being "allowed" to do something.
 

Sisson2011

Well-Known Member
BTW, the word you used "aloud" should be spelled "allowed".
:banghead:
Yup, reason I'm gonna be a pilot and not something that requires many years in college.

And thanks for the replies. The reason I ask is because I made a short field landing the other day (practicing for my commercial) and I landed just on the top part of the threshold markings. My instructor told me that if this was a check ride I would've failed because I landed too short. I asked him if it was just for the short field landing requirements or if it was all the time, and he said i was never allowed:) to land on them. I was almost certain that was incorrect. Thanks for clarifying.
 

Barty

Well-Known Member
:banghead:
Yup, reason I'm gonna be a pilot and not something that requires many years in college.

And thanks for the replies. The reason I ask is because I made a short field landing the other day (practicing for my commercial) and I landed just on the top part of the threshold markings. My instructor told me that if this was a check ride I would've failed because I landed too short. I asked him if it was just for the short field landing requirements or if it was all the time, and he said i was never allowed:) to land on them. I was almost certain that was incorrect. Thanks for clarifying.
I put it down on the numbers or right on the end of the threshold markings when demonstrating short field landings on my checkride and I passed. Your CFI just pulled that out of his ass or the examiner he sends people to has his own interpretation that doesn't agree with the book. There are some fields out there that are short enough that you either put it down right on the threshold markings or numbers or you go around.
 

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
I asked him if it was just for the short field landing requirements or if it was all the time, and he said i was never allowed:) to land on them. I was almost certain that was incorrect. Thanks for clarifying.
For what it's worth...

When I was learning short-field for my PPL, my CFI was pretty tough on me, and wanted the plane within 150' of where he specified.

The DPE, however, said, "get us stopped before the markers." Which I did. I think my CFI was just holding me to a tighter standard to make the checkride easier.
 

SFCC/UND

Well-Known Member
landing on the threshold marking is not a good idea. You're basically flying below the glide path and obstacle clearance is on your own. If you lose a engine you're going to be the weakest link. Goodbye.
 

Stone Cold

Well-Known Member
landing on the threshold marking is not a good idea. You're basically flying below the glide path and obstacle clearance is on your own. If you lose a engine you're going to be the weakest link. Goodbye.
And if you lose an engine 5 miles from the airport at TPA, then you are also in a world of hurt. If a field calls for a short field approach and landing, then that is what should be used. Assessment of the risks involved going into a short field should be done well beforehand. It's up to the pilot to assess and minimize those risks, where possible.

I understand what you are saying, but to say not to execute a short field approach using all available runway puts you in a bad position when you need all of the field. Yes, you are going "below" glidepath when there is a glidepath, but if there are no markings, and it's a 2000' runway, where would the "glidepath" be? Where should the glidepath be?

Go into Telluride, CO in most high performance airplanes (props included), and you either use all available runway, or you end up off the side of the cliff. I'll try to get a pic or two up later of what I'm talking about...

Alright, the photos didn't work. I'll have to use a different website later.
 

JLF

Well-Known Member
landing on the threshold marking is not a good idea. You're basically flying below the glide path and obstacle clearance is on your own. If you lose a engine you're going to be the weakest link. Goodbye.
:yeahthat:

I stay sharp on short field landings using the TDZ or aiming point markings. Once in a while I'll do the 'real deal' because the sight picture looks weird to me when planting it right on the threshold.
 

DPApilot

GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
:banghead:
Yup, reason I'm gonna be a pilot and not something that requires many years in college.

And thanks for the replies. The reason I ask is because I made a short field landing the other day (practicing for my commercial) and I landed just on the top part of the threshold markings. My instructor told me that if this was a check ride I would've failed because I landed too short. I asked him if it was just for the short field landing requirements or if it was all the time, and he said i was never allowed:) to land on them. I was almost certain that was incorrect. Thanks for clarifying.
are you getting your PVT or COM
 

JoelT

Well-Known Member
When I used to demonstrate short-field landings I put the mains right where the dirt met the pavement (no displaced threshold). I could then have the aircraft stopped BEFORE I left the threshold markings, then make a right turn and exit the runway into the run-up area. This was in a C-152.

Of course, I always taught, "Do as I say, not as I do" :buck:.
 

Jpax

Well-Known Member
:banghead:
Yup, reason I'm gonna be a pilot and not something that requires many years in college.

Dang, I guess all the advice I've received over the years about getting a college degree isn't true. :( I should just drop out now that I got me some airplane ratings. ;)
 

Brian Z

Well-Known Member
You do not need many years in college, but if you plan on going very far as a pilot it is an unwritten necessity. Let's see both pilots have xxxx hours, one has a college degree and the other does not. Who do you think has the edge with all else equal?

When I took my multi add-on the DPE asked me to put it on the piano keys.
 

DL31082

Well-Known Member
In every checkride I have ever had, they always asked me to put it on the numbers. Not that mines perfect, but don't they still teach grammar in high school.
 

JLF

Well-Known Member
When I used to demonstrate short-field landings I put the mains right where the dirt met the pavement (no displaced threshold). I could then have the aircraft stopped BEFORE I left the threshold markings, then make a right turn and exit the runway into the run-up area. This was in a C-152.

Of course, I always taught, "Do as I say, not as I do" :buck:.

Or just skip the runway all together and go for the taxiway.:yar:
 
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