Landing on Unlit Runway at Night

MercFE said:
My command primarily operates out of NAS Pax River when on alert. The field is not 24 hours, as it is a training/test facility for the Navy.

Given that we may have to fly at any hour of the day, we are routinely given a land or takeoff clearance "at own risk" as the controllers that stand watch after hours for us are not fully qualified to man an ATC facility. Basically all they are trained to do is pull a clearance for us and turn on the lights.



This is actually all we get at NAS Pax... That place is a black hole.
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At least it is not like an Air Force facility. Tower closed=airfield closed.
 
Blackhawk said:
At least it is not like an Air Force facility. Tower closed=airfield closed.
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Not even the airport beacon is left on, nor are the runway lights.

Are AAF's the same way? I only know KFHU intimately, but it's a joint-use field, so it's not a good representation. Does KBIF operate that way?
 
MikeD said:
Not even the airport beacon is left on, nor are the runway lights.

Are AAF's the same way? I only know KFHU intimately, but it's a joint-use field, so it's not a good representation. Does KBIF operate that way?
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Nope. Just like a civilian airfield- it just becomes a non-towered military airfield.
 
Blackhawk said:
Read my last paragraph. While the guy is a complete moron, unfortunately morons often set legal precedents. The judge makes it very, very clear that he considers the decision to take off of a dark runway "...a reckless operation of the airplane.". It does not matter WHAT you think is safe. This is now the law. Want this precedent overturned? You can either write the Office of Chief Counsel for an interpretation or violate this interpretation and and go through the legal process and hope it is overturned. I recommend against the latter.
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Well as in a lot of cases, if you don't bend metal, who is to say who did what. If the runway is unlit there's a really good chance it's way way way out there, likely not hard surface.
 
z987k said:
Well as in a lot of cases, if you don't bend metal, who is to say who did what. If the runway is unlit there's a really good chance it's way way way out there, likely not hard surface.
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I'm not with a FSDO and as long as someone is safe I'm not going to snitch. The problem is that there are people who will and FAA Safety Inspectors have been known to hang out at airports. Since a precedent has been set in court you are putting your ticket on the line if you do this. Heck, pilots are being violated for doing right hand patterns.
 
Blackhawk said:
I'm not with a FSDO and as long as someone is safe I'm not going to snitch. The problem is that there are people who will and FAA Safety Inspectors have been known to hang out at airports. Since a precedent has been set in court you are putting your ticket on the line if you do this. Heck, pilots are being violated for doing right hand patterns.
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Uncontrolled field, or after the field is closed, there's no requirement to talk on the radio and identify yourself. Or to even use your callsign if you do. :D
 
MikeD said:
Uncontrolled field, or after the field is closed, there's no requirement to talk on the radio and identify yourself. Or to even use your callsign if you do. :D
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Not sure what they do now, but it would turn into an uncontrolled airfield. First I realized that the Air Force required a tower was at Hunter Army Airfield back in the 90s; we were doing NVG operations late one night and the tower was still open. Asked what they were doing hanging around and they said an Air Force C-5 was inbound and they had to stay open until it landed. Ran into a problem later on trying to use Hurlbert in the early morning- we tried at first to use it without the tower but were told we could not use it unless the tower was manned.
 
Blackhawk said:
Not sure what they do now, but it would turn into an uncontrolled airfield. First I realized that the Air Force required a tower was at Hunter Army Airfield back in the 90s; we were doing NVG operations late one night and the tower was still open. Asked what they were doing hanging around and they said an Air Force C-5 was inbound and they had to stay open until it landed. Ran into a problem later on trying to use Hurlbert in the early morning- we tried at first to use it without the tower but were told we could not use it unless the tower was manned.
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Yes, USAF fields, when closed after operating hours, will have the runway lights and airport beacon off. All that remains on is the VASI/PAPIs sometimes.

For the civilian uncontrolled field or after hours......with regards to FAA or anyone hanging around, thats where my comments of "just don't talk on the radio" come in, if you're the only one there landing on a dark runway. :)
 
MikeD said:
For the civilian uncontrolled field or after hours......with regards to FAA or anyone hanging around, thats where my comments of "just don't talk on the radio" come in, if you're the only one there landing on a dark runway. :)
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If you land on a dark runway and no one is there to see it, did it happen?
Of course there are some places where landing on a dark runway might actually attract attention.
 
jrh said:
I can't think of any specific reference prohibiting it.

The question I ask myself in such situations though is, "If something bad happens, how will I explain this to the feds/chief pilot?"

If I have a good, safety-based explanation, I go for it. If not, I don't.
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This. All that goes through my mind is 91.13. I'd rather not have to explain anything to a fed. You are just increasing your odds of having something come up and bite you.

My days of doing dumb suff for fun are over. I have to much to loose.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Actually, I do have to go to work on Thursday, and have a funeral on Saturday, so I'll not be here all week...just most of it.
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