Landing on displaced threshold

subpilot

subpilot

Squawking 7600
My airport has taxiway closures for the next few weeks and so the tower has requested our flight school to request full length landings which in there description means to land on the displaced threshold, thus allowing our aircraft to clear the runway before the construction area begins. I can't find the official or legal meaning of "full length landing" (besides requesting to use the full length on the landing roll) or any exceptions that would allow landing on the displaced threshold. Is this operating practice okay and would it most likely require a local waiver or could I request this anywhere I land at that has a displaced threshold?
 
I'm thinking the threshhold was displaced for a reason. If it wasn't good enough to land on before, why now. Having said that I really don't think its legal either. Landing full length would be to use the whole runway, and they are basically running LAHSO.
 
I don't think it's actually illegal to land on a displaced threshold. And if ATC is condoning it, I probably wouldn't think twice about doing it in a light airplane.
 
Holocene said:
I don't think it's actually illegal to land on a displaced threshold. And if ATC is condoning it, I probably wouldn't think twice about doing it in a light airplane.
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Thresholds are displaced for a reason (obstacles), which would mean to me that safe operating practices would normally dictate that one should not use it for landing.
 
This threshold is displaced for convenience (so i've heard) as there are no obstacles and the displaced threshold is rated for landing on (again, so I have heard).

airport diagram if interested:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0908/00036AD.PDF

I did one today but just felt weird doing so as I have always been taught that this is not ok.
 
Thats is a Looooong runway regardless of the displacement. Do you really need to land on the displaced part to begin with (where is the construction at). The whole thing is odd, however.
 
dasleben said:
Thresholds are displaced for a reason (obstacles), which would mean to me that safe operating practices would normally dictate that one should not use it for landing.
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Obstacles aren't the only reason. I doubt ATC or the airport operator is going to allow landings prior to the displaced threshold if the original reason involved a safety hazard.
 
Holocene said:
Obstacles aren't the only reason. I doubt ATC or the airport operator is going to allow landings prior to the displaced threshold if the original reason involved a safety hazard.
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You're right. I should have said "obstacles, mostly" instead of simply "obstacles." :D

But I wouldn't do something just because ATC says it's okay. I once had ATC tell me it was okay to go direct to a VOR when the route was painting Level 5 returns on the radar. I'd want to know for sure that the displaced threshold was suitable for landing first, and that the FAA approves of using it for landing during construction (and I don't mean ATC).
 
subpilot said:
My airport has taxiway closures for the next few weeks and so the tower has requested our flight school to request full length landings which in there description means to land on the displaced threshold, thus allowing our aircraft to clear the runway before the construction area begins. I can't find the official or legal meaning of "full length landing" (besides requesting to use the full length on the landing roll) or any exceptions that would allow landing on the displaced threshold. Is this operating practice okay and would it most likely require a local waiver or could I request this anywhere I land at that has a displaced threshold?
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Cool…………….I always try to skim the last arrow of a displaced threshold on purpose flying GA aircraft. The surface is always rated as good as the runway and if you cleared to do it, why not.
Good time to practice short field landings……….objective is to make the first taxi way.

Check these guys out.


1078774.jpg
 
dasleben said:
You're right. I should have said "obstacles, mostly" instead of simply "obstacles." :D

But I wouldn't do something just because ATC says it's okay. I once had ATC tell me it was okay to go direct to a VOR when the route was painting Level 5 returns on the radar. I'd want to know for sure that the displaced threshold was suitable for landing first, and that the FAA approves of using it for landing during construction (and I don't mean ATC).
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Displaced thresholds can be for obstacles, or can even be for noise abatement, as a few airports have them.........how the logic works of a few 100 extra feet making a noise abatement difference works, is beyond me though.
 
I was just down in BFL...the threshold is like 3000 feet down the runway!
Im pretty sure the Brasilla and F-18 that departed full length put more stress on the DT than I would have landing my 3800lb Seminole. Im sure the FAA grants temp waivers all the time for airport ops.

We're about to lose our runway at KMER for 7 weeks while they repaint and scrape rubber. I'm actually looking forward to using the taxiway for landings and seeing how they configure lights n such. We could actually land on the ramp..theres gotta be 3000 feet at least and as long as you dont clip the underground tank manholes you'd be allright.
 
2. Displaced Threshold. A displaced threshold is a threshold located at a point on the runway other than the designated beginning of the runway. Displacement of a threshold reduces the length of runway available for landings. The portion of runway behind a displaced threshold is available for takeoffs in either direction and landings from the opposite direction. A ten feet wide white threshold bar is located across the width of the runway at the displaced threshold. White arrows are located along the centerline in the area between the beginning of the runway and displaced threshold. White arrow heads are located across the width of the runway just prior to the threshold bar....

AIM 2-3-3 (h)

 
Sunburn said:
2. Displaced Threshold. A displaced threshold is a threshold located at a point on the runway other than the designated beginning of the runway. Displacement of a threshold reduces the length of runway available for landings. The portion of runway behind a displaced threshold is available for takeoffs in either direction and landings from the opposite direction. A ten feet wide white threshold bar is located across the width of the runway at the displaced threshold. White arrows are located along the centerline in the area between the beginning of the runway and displaced threshold. White arrow heads are located across the width of the runway just prior to the threshold bar....

AIM 2-3-3 (h)
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Thank you Captain Obvious

captain-obvious2.jpg




Dumb_sign.jpg


(no disrespect :))
 
subpilot said:
Thank you Captain Obvious

captain-obvious2.jpg




Dumb_sign.jpg


(no disrespect :))
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None taken, I laughed as well, and I do not mean any disrespect to you, but it is clearly spelled in the AIM what a displaced threshold is, and what you are allowed to do with it. Now, I'm not saying that a controller will not try to bend that, but not all controllers know what a pilot can legally do.
 
vikingair said:
I was just down in BFL...the threshold is like 3000 feet down the runway!
Im pretty sure the Brasilla and F-18 that departed full length put more stress on the DT than I would have landing my 3800lb Seminole. Im sure the FAA grants temp waivers all the time for airport ops.

We're about to lose our runway at KMER for 7 weeks while they repaint and scrape rubber. I'm actually looking forward to using the taxiway for landings and seeing how they configure lights n such. We could actually land on the ramp..theres gotta be 3000 feet at least and as long as you dont clip the underground tank manholes you'd be allright.
Click to expand...

When they closed the runway at KRYY to resurface and widen it, the taxiway that was used as a runway was limited to day VMC use. They had some temporary markings on the taxiway, but made no changes to the lighting.

Interesting that is going to take that long there, they had the runway closed and re-opened in less than 4 weeks. However, the ILS had to be re-checked after the construction and the glide slope has not been able to be put back into service yet, and it is just a couple months shy of 1 year that it has been down.
 
vikingair said:
I was just down in BFL...the threshold is like 3000 feet down the runway!
Im pretty sure the Brasilla and F-18 that departed full length put more stress on the DT than I would have landing my 3800lb Seminole. Im sure the FAA grants temp waivers all the time for airport ops.

We're about to lose our runway at KMER for 7 weeks while they repaint and scrape rubber. I'm actually looking forward to using the taxiway for landings and seeing how they configure lights n such. We could actually land on the ramp..theres gotta be 3000 feet at least and as long as you dont clip the underground tank manholes you'd be allright.
Click to expand...


I landed on the taxiway at MER on my solo cross country while they were paving the runway... Even the taxiway was the largest runway I'd ever landed on! ;)
 
Barty said:
When they closed the runway at KRYY to resurface and widen it, the taxiway that was used as a runway was limited to day VMC use. They had some temporary markings on the taxiway, but made no changes to the lighting.
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That's how it was when I flew to one that was being worked on in Oklahoma (can't remember the exact airport). They really only painted numbers on either end of the taxiway.
 
I could be wrong, but I think one of the reasons a displaced threshold is not allowed for landing is that that part wasn't built for the force of landing planes. Or rather, it's not officially rated to the same weight threshold as the runway it's associated with. That means for a training aircraft, there shouldn't be any issue. But, "officially," there isn't any guarantee that the threshold won't collapse the instant you touch down.
 
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