Landing Incident @ SFO

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@exneophyte

Here is a look:

TypicalEngineResponseChart.jpg



FARsChart.jpg


JT8DAcceljpeg.jpg


JT8DEngineAccelaration.jpg
 
Flight-idle while slow, low, and dirty in a swept-wing jet is a big no-no, is it not?

*straight-wing prop guy, here.
 
I would be curious to know the experience levels of all of all of the pilots that were aboard this flight. I also find it pretty wild how it seems like nothing was really said until the 7 seconds before impact point. I'm certainly no airline pilot yet, but it looks like getting into a situation like that could have been spotted well before the 7 second until impact mark. It would be interesting to know just how much CRM could have been utilized more with this particular accident as far as the other pilots speaking up about the dangerous situation that was developing.


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Muff3n said:
I would be curious to know the experience levels of all of all of the pilots that were aboard this flight. I also find it pretty wild how it seems like nothing was really said until the 7 seconds before impact point. I'm certainly no airline pilot yet, but it looks like getting into a situation like that could have been spotted well before the 7 second until impact mark. It would be interesting to know just how much CRM could have been utilized more with this particular accident as far as the other pilots speaking up about the dangerous situation that was developing.


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Click to expand...

Found this on a few news articles:

"Yoon, the Asiana president, described the pilots as "skilled," saying three had logged more than 10,000 hours each of flight time. He said the fourth had put in almost that much time, but officials later corrected that to say the fourth had logged nearly 5,000 hours. All four are South Koreans."
 
I have to ask...where are the standard callouts before this hot mess? Were they being done? I just don't see/understand how they could have gotten into this situation yet.
 
Muff3n said:
I would be curious to know the experience levels of all of all of the pilots that were aboard this flight. I also find it pretty wild how it seems like nothing was really said until the 7 seconds before impact point. I'm certainly no airline pilot yet, but it looks like getting into a situation like that could have been spotted well before the 7 second until impact mark. It would be interesting to know just how much CRM could have been utilized more with this particular accident as far as the other pilots speaking up about the dangerous situation that was developing.


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Click to expand...
Long flight, how many hours had they flown up to that point? Landing at 3:30am their body clock time, lets not discount fatigue/tiredness. I remember in the Emirates Melbourne near-disaster the CA had literally flown 99.8 hours in the month lookback, right up to the legal limit.
 
pete2800 said:
Flight-idle while slow, low, and dirty in a swept-wing jet is a big no-no, is it not?

*straight-wing prop guy, here.
Click to expand...

It's just not done, it is that dangerous. One element of stabilized approach criteria is for the engines to be spooled to X% N1 (or some other parameter). Most carriers require this to happen by 1,000 ft AGL (TDZE). Otherwise, go arounds or other factors requiring a large change in thrust will quickly go from a routine event to a deadly event. As can be seen from that chart by A Life Aloft, there is an exponential difference in available thrust per unit of time between an engine at flight idle and one that is spooled to X%.
 
Zidac said:
Found this on a few news articles:

"Yoon, the Asiana president, described the pilots as "skilled," saying three had logged more than 10,000 hours each of flight time. He said the fourth had put in almost that much time, but officials later corrected that to say the fourth had logged nearly 5,000 hours. All four are South Koreans."
Click to expand...

My next question. How in the world did they get themselves into such a bad spot at such a critical moment? Fatigue sounds like it could be a factor, but even at that are pilots not most alert during the final moments of flight? I know I'm pretty alert during all my landings for good reason.
 
A Life Aloft said:
I have to ask...where are the standard callouts before this hot mess? Were they being done? I just don't see/understand how they could have gotten into this situation yet.
Click to expand...

There's no freaking way they met their stabilized approach criteria, those callouts cited on the CVR by the NTSB were way late.
 
Is it me or is there a bit of a roostertail from striking the water in the initial impact sequence.

edit: autocorrect
 
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