Landing Incident @ SFO

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Maybe a list of reasons on why the aircraft could have appeared to have landed short then....
 
If they had a total loss of power at 600' AGL, would it be plausible that the crew dropped the nose to gain some energy, or would that be completely ludicrous?

Please note this post is complete and utter guess work from someone who's never flown anything bigger than a Seminole... but the theory of managing energy comes from glider time.
 
canadian_atc said:
If they had a total loss of power at 600' AGL, would it be plausible that the crew dropped the nose to gain some energy, or would that be completely ludicrous?

Please note this post is complete and utter guess work from someone who's never flown anything bigger than a Seminole... but the theory of managing energy comes from glider time.
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If you have a complete power loss at 600 feet agl it isn't going to be pretty in a swept wing aircraft no matter what you try to do. From the recordings there doesn't seem to be a mayday call from the 777 today. The British Airways 777 crew did put out a mayday call when they lost power.
 
Jfk-Pilot said:
Quoted for truthiness
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I know one thing I noticed that was common was pulling the power levers to flight idle short final and then putting both hands on the yoke. 99 is a one handed airplane son! :) The guy we had in Lubbock was a rockstar though. We worked on his landings and his assertiveness(offering input) and I have no doubt he's perfectly competent as a crew member in a large airliner. Stereotypes don't always apply. Many at AMF have awful attitudes about the FOs too though, which is unfortunate.
 
Also another thing to consider. Us guys in the states, we do hand flown visuals with no vertical guidance such as an ils or papi/vasi all the time. Why? Because sometimes we fly into Podunk airports that don't have any vertical guidance. But these 777 guys, they fly into big international airports. Kennedy, Sfo, Chicago, etc. Take away an ILS, take away a papi, get slam dunked into SFO on a visual, and add in the culture over there, it can easily get ugly. Pilots fault or not, let's remember as fellow crew members how hard it must be for those pilots and flight attendants. Foreign soil, no family, just crashed a 777, will be grilled by investigators from 2 countries.
 
Seggy said:
If you have a complete power loss at 600 feet agl it isn't going to be pretty in a swept wing aircraft. Also from the recordings there doesn't seem to be a mayday call from the 777 today. The British Airways 777 crew did put out a mayday call when they lost power.
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If I was at 600' in a Cessna 172, let alone a 777 with a total power loss, last thing I'm doing is telling the tower... Im gonna count on either radioing them after Im on the ground, or they'll see the aluminum and carbon fibre flying through the air at some point.
 
canadian_atc said:
If I was at 600' in a Cessna 172, let alone a 777 with a total power loss, last thing I'm doing is telling the tower... Im gonna count on either radioing them after Im on the ground, or they'll see the aluminum and carbon fibre flying through the air at some point.
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Understand and don't think you are wrong in that.

I was just putting an observation out there.
 
nc1982 said:
Also another thing to consider. Us guys in the states, we do hand flown visuals with no vertical guidance such as an ils or papi/vasi all the time. Why? Because sometimes we fly into Podunk airports that don't have any vertical guidance. But these 777 guys, they fly into big international airports. Kennedy, Sfo, Chicago, etc. Take away an ILS, take away a papi, get slam dunked into SFO on a visual, and add in the culture over there, it can easily get ugly. Pilots fault or not, let's remember as fellow crew members how hard it must be for those pilots and flight attendants. Foreign soil, no family, just crashed a 777, will be grilled by investigators from 2 countries.
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I once had a chat with a Chinese student who was studying for his Multi-Crew licence. It was downright scary to hear about how little these guys had to know to get their hands on aircraft like this.
 
nc1982 said:
Also another thing to consider. Us guys in the states, we do hand flown visuals with no vertical guidance such as an ils or papi/vasi all the time. Why? Because sometimes we fly into Podunk airports that don't have any vertical guidance. But these 777 guys, they fly into big international airports. Kennedy, Sfo, Chicago, etc. Take away an ILS, take away a papi, get slam dunked into SFO on a visual, and add in the culture over there, it can easily get ugly. Pilots fault or not, let's remember as fellow crew members how hard it must be for those pilots and flight attendants. Foreign soil, no family, just crashed a 777, will be grilled by investigators from 2 countries.
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Not just the states! :)

It should be mandatory for every pilot.... you know, to learn to FLY an airplane

4113578695_2d89d5c3cc.jpg
 
canadian_atc said:
Good job by the controller and all the rest of the crews in the zone...
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I listened to a phone interview given by one of the passengers earlier. He stated it took "20-30 minutes for ambulances to show up," and "the firefighters were lagging hard. I've been sitting at the airport for four hours for nothing so we're not really impressed with the whole protocol and the systems in place for this type of thing."

And yet, here you are...sitting safely in the terminal giving an interview to the media. Jesus.

I, for one, continue to be tremendously impressed with ARFF. Honestly, you never want to see these guys/gals put to work - but damn, hats off to all of you...
 
pullup said:
Lol, good catch! Figured an Asian airline crash with all the survivors there would be more pics....
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I knew what ya meant, buddy! It's a impressive number of people that survived. Glad this turned out how it did and not how it could have been!

Nothing short of a miracle!!!
 
I wonder if you took away all vertical guidance at let's say JFK, and ran straight visuals all day, how many go-arounds would there be due to unstablized approaches. I'm guessing more than people think. It's not about how good you fly, it's human factors. Take away something a guy has seen for months, and then throw a wrench into it and take it away, see how they respond.
 
TripSix said:
I listened to a phone interview given by one of the passengers earlier. He stated it took "20-30 minutes for ambulances to show up," and "the firefighters were lagging hard. I've been sitting at the airport for four hours for nothing so we're not really impressed with the whole protocol and the systems in place for this type of thing."

And yet, here you are...sitting safely in the terminal giving an interview to the media. Jesus.

I, for one, continue to be tremendously impressed with ARFF. Honestly, you never want to see these guys/gals put to work - but damn, hats off to all of you...
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I heard that too. There were other witnesses who said it took less than 10 minutes for them to arrive and that they did a fantastic job.
 
TripSix said:
I listened to a phone interview given by one of the passengers earlier. He stated it took "20-30 minutes for ambulances to show up," and "the firefighters were lagging hard. I've been sitting at the airport for four hours for nothing so we're not really impressed with the whole protocol and the systems in place for this type of thing."

And yet, here you are...sitting safely in the terminal giving an interview to the media. Jesus.

I, for one, continue to be tremendously impressed with ARFF. Honestly, you never want to see these guys/gals put to work - but damn, hats off to all of you...
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It's somewhat comforting to know these guys/gals around the world are so damn good at their job.
 
nc1982 said:
Also another thing to consider. Us guys in the states, we do hand flown visuals with no vertical guidance such as an ils or papi/vasi all the time. Why? Because sometimes we fly into Podunk airports that don't have any vertical guidance. But these 777 guys, they fly into big international airports. Kennedy, Sfo, Chicago, etc. Take away an ILS, take away a papi, get slam dunked into SFO on a visual, and add in the culture over there, it can easily get ugly. Pilots fault or not, let's remember as fellow crew members how hard it must be for those pilots and flight attendants. Foreign soil, no family, just crashed a 777, will be grilled by investigators from 2 countries.
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I'm sure Asian pilots take 777s into airports that don't have ILSs available or PAPIs available. This couldn't have been a first time for the crew to see a GP out of service and no PAPI?
 
SeanD said:
I heard that too. There were other witnesses who said it took less than 10 minutes for them to arrive and that they did a fantastic job.
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Wouldn't surprise me. The AF A340 survivors in Toronto said that too. 'The first disaster was the crash itself, the second disaster was how they handled it afterwards.' It's not just the actual search and rescue, it's also what happens afterwards. An international flight, they haven't cleared customs. Those who need medical attention are hoarded away to hospitals, but good luck if you're actually fine. In the AF Toronto case, some were held in a room without even the ability to make one phone call to let their loved ones know they are okay.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I'm sure Asian pilots take 777s into airports that don't have ILSs available or PAPIs available. This couldn't have been a first time for the crew to see a GP out of service and no PAPI?
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What happened to the "Picture"

Or do they teach that any more.
 
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