Knowing the market as a CFI

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splash

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As a CFI today and knowing how the industry is today what do you tell the career driven students? How do you or would you answer their question similar to this, "What is the chance that I will get a job flying after the money I spend on all my training?"

I then fear..."So Mr.Splash, tell me about your experience in aviation so far.
...GEEE! You had 5 flying jobs in the past 4 years! What happen?"

I guess my reply would be... "I can tell you but will have to charge you $50/hr of ground training". :D

Then the student turns back on aviation and becomes a dentist or something. :clap:??? the good news bad news feeling!
 
First off, NOTHING comes easy. Nothing in life is guaranteed, except for debt.. However, with persistance, dedication, a positive attitude, networking/opportunity, good things happen to those who wait and persevere. Being plain honest, straight forward, yet pumped up and keeping a positive attitude may bring on additional students if you present the answer in a tactful, honest, yet positive light. Instead of lying to future customers and having them find out later about the market, do them a favor and just be honest, BECOME A MENTOR, not a salesman looking for a buck. Are times tough? Yes. Is it impossible? It can be extremely hard, but not impossible, depends on what type of person you are and attitude you withhold. IMHO, it is the responsibility of the potential customer to do some heavy research before entering the field. Are they THAT dedicated? Are they entering the industry JUST to fly airplanes? Or can they see themselves involved outside of the cockpit as well? ie: instructing, managing, safety, etc.. These are the students that will persevere and stick to it no matter what and also enjoy their aviation career. Why? Because they possess that passion and drive to be around airplanes, whether inside or out. Limiting the career possibilities in any industry is also limiting yourself on where you'll end up in that career field, or not. There is more to aviation than JUST flying. A smile, firm handshake, honesty, and a friendly positive attitude go a long long way. They see you struggle and imagine themselves in your shoes. BUT, you're still happy (lets hope, glass is still half full here) because you're doing what you love, and lets say even after some thought of doing other things, venturing somewhere else, you still can't think of anything else you would rather do. (Again, one size does not fit all) $0.02 @ 0421.
 
I am not sure being a dentist and flying my beautiful Bonanza when I feel like it, is such a bad thing. :D

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Most don't actually ask about it. After they solo and/or get a certificate I will take them out for beer/food and then actually have to pry how much they know about a flying career out of them.
They don't know much but basically know it will be 10 years before they see any good money, and they are okay with it. Most are deeply in love with flying, and have the blinders that come with love.
 
And then some are completely confused about it and think they will be in the left seat of the 767 in 3 years.... Ive had students who said that they hated flying small planes and only wanted to fly the heavy stuff.


Boo.
 
I get the question a lot. I answer it as follows...

Right now few companies are hiring. It's extremely difficult for low time pilots to get jobs. That's the reality at this moment.

Aviation is cyclical. Give it a few years and hiring will increase for one reason or another. It always does. Hopefully you'll be done with training and ready to ride the wave by that point.

The key to getting a job is flexibility. If you are dead set on getting a job flying one type of plane, in one part of the country, for a certain pay, with a particular schedule, and won't be happy otherwise, flying is probably not for you. However, if you really love being a pilot and are willing to compromise on some of those elements, there will always be a job out there.

I, personally, have no regrets. I've been doing this for 6 years and couldn't be happier. No job is perfect, but I'd rather be in the aviation industry than anywhere else.
 
nocturnalaviator said:
Are they entering the industry JUST to fly airplanes? Or can they see themselves involved outside of the cockpit as well? ie: instructing, managing, safety, etc.. These are the students that will persevere and stick to it no matter what and also enjoy their aviation career. Why? Because they possess that passion and drive to be around airplanes, whether inside or out. Limiting the career possibilities in any industry is also limiting yourself on where you'll end up in that career field, or not. There is more to aviation than JUST flying.
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I see, I just got laid off as an A&P helper. ;) That would mean lay off #6 in the aviation field just didn't count it because it wasn't "flying". Never did expect it to be easy but never thought it would be this difficult as well. What really bothers me though after all this is the fact that every interview starts off about what I would do if a better opportunity came along after we trained you and spent all this money...but I continue to get laid off all the damn time at the drop of a hat it seems, lol. I wish I were fired instead because I could improve in ways. However, Im done with the past and must move along if it means packing my things up soon or starting my own thing. It may be time for a big risk. The gears keep turning. :beer:
 
splash said:
As a CFI today and knowing how the industry is today what do you tell the career driven students? How do you or would you answer their question similar to this, "What is the chance that I will get a job flying after the money I spend on all my training?"
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First of all, I hope they don't ask. :p Usually I get asked this question from the 17 year old that thinks it's "cool" to be a pilot.

If they do, I usually tell them they will have the opportunity to have a variety of flying experiences before they reach their ultimate goal. i.e. flight instructing, photo flights, scenic flights, charter work, regional, etc. All of which will make them great pilots when they finally "arrive" at the 777 job or corporate gig.

I also usually say that the road will be long, and that they need to take their training seriously right from the beginning. Professional flying is more than just sitting in cruise with the AP on. It means long hours of sitting down with the books.
 
I tell students the following.... You have to love what you do in life no matter what. But especially in this field. God knows it is not easy, nor is it for everyone. And right now times are tough. I am just happy to be employed doing what I love. But, as has been stated, it takes time. My last career took me 13 years to get my previous rank and status. This is no different. Those looking for the uniform and flying the big iron, while hanging out with model flight attendants.... will not last. But those that are looking to get into a career in which they can't see themselves doing anything else but fly....., well then welcome to the family.... Life in aviation is not only about beeing an airline pilot. And I damn sure drive that point into them. They days of the 250 hour first officer are also over (thank God), no matter what the expensive marketing says. I am honest, but with a positive twist.... But what do I know, I now want to fly floats out of Seattle.... (a dream for now, but maybe a reality in the future)..
 
juskl said:
I now want to fly floats out of Seattle.... (a dream for now, but maybe a reality in the future)..
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Geeez, what are you crazy! Why would you wanna do a thing like that?
Maybe we should team up, go there, and take over.:D
 
I view the market as this: the economy stinks. The job market is in the hole. Companies are making cuts every where except to one thing: all of them want to keep their creature comforts that they afford to their executives. Corporate planes are one of the. And I don't see freight going down either.

More importantly: the Vietnam veteran pilots are going to have to be at mandatory retirement age very soon.

So, in a nut shell, there is hope for pilots yet.
 
Splash - sorry to read the A&P thing did not work out. :mad:
I'm traveling like a salesmen this week - but you know how to find me. Finish your CFI, so we can get you out of the melting pot, down there.
;)
 
The best answer would be to tell your student to practice in front of the mirror and ask: "Would you like fries with that!":D
 
saria19 said:
I view the market as this: the economy stinks. The job market is in the hole. Companies are making cuts every where except to one thing: all of them want to keep their creature comforts that they afford to their executives. Corporate planes are one of the. And I don't see freight going down either.

More importantly: the Vietnam veteran pilots are going to have to be at mandatory retirement age very soon.

So, in a nut shell, there is hope for pilots yet.
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Sorry - i think your whole perception of the industry is out of whack.

Corporations are making cuts everywhere and one of the first departments to get whittled down is the flight department.

There are a number of freight companies that are struggling because of the Check 21 Act.

Also just because the Vets are getting older, doesn't mean they have to retire. That's only for 121 ops. There are a bunch of other positions that aren't 121 they can go into at their age, filling jobs we might have once desired.

There may be hope, but you need to see the forest and the trees...
 
I have had this question a lot....my response is the same every time.

If this really is the business you want to be in; if you are not in it for "the money"; if you are willing to work hard; if you understand that there really is no such thing as a "stepping stone" job, and don't treat your job as such; if you understand that there is never a time to stop improving your game......then you will love this business.

If you can't answer in the affirmative to any of the above.......get the hell out.
 
moxiepilot said:
Sorry - i think your whole perception of the industry is out of whack.

Corporations are making cuts everywhere and one of the first departments to get whittled down is the flight department.

Also just because the Vets are getting older, doesn't mean they have to retire. That's only for 121 ops. There are a bunch of other positions that aren't 121 they can go into at their age, filling jobs we might have once desired.
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I was giving my view, from the side of a person who does know a number of people who own big businesses. Most of them have told me to keep in touch because they do have flight departments in their companies and they don't seem to be taking as big of a hit as many try to lead us to believe.

Also, think of this when you consider the vet pilots retiring: the companies will be paying for experience as well as for the body. They could get away with paying newbies peanuts, but not them. The extra price may give companies pause.
 
saria19 said:
Also, think of this when you consider the vet pilots retiring: the companies will be paying for experience as well as for the body. They could get away with paying newbies peanuts, but not them. The extra price may give companies pause.
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:yeahthat: There's also the fact that older pilots are more likely end up having medical issues due to aging, which has to be taken into consideration by management.
 
saria19 said:
I was giving my view, from the side of a person who does know a number of people who own big businesses. Most of them have told me to keep in touch because they do have flight departments in their companies and they don't seem to be taking as big of a hit as many try to lead us to believe.

Also, think of this when you consider the vet pilots retiring: the companies will be paying for experience as well as for the body. They could get away with paying newbies peanuts, but not them. The extra price may give companies pause.
Click to expand...
well versed...some positive food for thought. Its nice seeing something different for a change.
 
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