King Air 90 SIC time worth it?

jrh

jrh

Well-Known Member
Today the chief pilot for a local charter company offered me a part time job as a King Air 90 SIC. Basically he'd like to train in myself and three other local pilots to fly as Part 135 SICs, with each of us taking about 3 or 4 out and back trips per month. Each trip would be about 1-2 hours of flight time, with a bunch of sitting at the destination.

Pay would be $100/day + meals.

The thing I'm torn over is how to balance this against my obligation to the flight school I currently manage, as well as if I should bother with flying the King Airs at all.

I'm busier than I can handle at the flight school. The owner of the school has said he'd like to clone me, not see less of me. He said he won't specifically prohibit me from taking this King Air job, but he definitely doesn't like it, either. Nothing good will come to the flight school because of it.

I really do love my job at the flight school. I want to make a career out of flying and teaching in piston singles. I have nearly zero interest in the cargo/airline/corporate world.

With this in mind, I question what it would be worth to get experience as a King Air SIC. The pay isn't any good. The experience would eventually lead to flying as a Part 135 PIC...precisely what I'm not interested in. The flight time wouldn't even amount to much...probably less than 100 hours/year.

So why do I want to do it? I'm scared of getting "stale" as an instructor. I don't want to turn in to that old man at the airport who has 9000 hours of instruction given, yet hasn't done anything new to push himself for the past 20 years. I'm curious about Part 135 work. I want to be able to say I know what it's like, and that I can hack it as a Part 135 pilot. I want to be able to say with authority that I know how to fly a turbine powered aircraft. I want the "street cred" to say I've flown more than piston singles.

Plus, I have a whopping 42 hours of multi time right now. If anything ever tanks with my current job (not likely, but you never know), I'm nervous about how marketable I'd be anywhere else, just to pay the bills. I'm a darn good instructor and can fly almost any piston single you put me in, but outside of my local world, I think it might be tough to find work with 3000 TT and 42 multi. If I had a few hundred hours of King Air time, it might be enough to get me hired in a pinch.

Yet my boss and I agree that flying King Airs won't do much to further the career path I want for myself. I'm afraid I'm shooting myself in the foot to take time away from the school, not to mention that I'd be putting my boss into a bit of a tight spot by cutting back with him.

What do you think I should do?

Thanks in advance.
 
The time in type could lead to PIC position flying other king airs pt 91. A lot of those jobs require 100 hrs in a king air but very few specify 100 hrs PIC.

Depends on how much you would have to cut back at the school. I don't necessarily think it is a bad idea to expand your experience though.
3 or 4 trips a month doesn't sound too bad unless they're multi day trips.
 
Seems like you have given it some thought. In your shoes, I would take it, and tell the boss that really your intention is to broaden your perspective, gain some "cred", and get out of a rut. He should understand that. Try to be honest with all parties, and if you go that route, give this other guy his due. Don't dork anyone at the last minute.

Do what you think you need to do.
 
If youre not interested in flying cargo/airline etc.. and would like to stay instructing you have every right to do so. I will say though that you do gain very valuable experience in a 135 op. You learn things that can be implemented in your instructing from a fast paced environment. Also if for any reason you decide at some point that you would like to get another flying job elsewhere, you will be happy you took the C90 gig. Lots of guys look for opportunities like this, however everyone has a different career interest.
That being said, this may or may not be for you, but in my opinion it is a great opportunity and i would take it and try to work some deal with your flight school.

Turbine
 
I don't know how much "non-instruction" flying you do, but I know that I start to get in the "flying is just a job" rut when I go a spell without any flight time other than dual given. It sounds like you currently have a good gig that is rewarding to you. However, this could be an opportunity to do something else to break up those long spells of instruction if you can work a deal with the flight school. It could be something to keep you on your toes.
 
Only 3 or 4 days a month???? I would say do it. That is not a whole heck of a lot of time away from your instructing job. Your boss should understand that you are a long term employee and just want to do something to break it up a little. He should respect that.

I would tell the king air employer what you want to do with him, just a few trips a month and that you would like some time in advance before the trip to work it out with your schedule. I would try to avoid pop-up trips that really do put a strain on your instructing gig.

I think it would be a good experience for you. You may decide you might want to do something like that in the future, or it could make you never want to do it again. You'll never know for sure if you don't try it.
 
Personally, I would recommend it. You hit on the reasons why. You will get real world exposure to a 135 operation and that will make you better able to instruct commercial students. You will see another facet of aviation. Most importantly, what you want today and what you will want ten years from now may be very different. By accepting this opportunity now, you increase the possibility that you can pursue that different course in the future.
 
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Glad you are busy, JRH.
If your school is looking for instructors, we have about five guys that have passed or about to pass their CFI ride and we can't hire them all. I'd only recommend the good ones. :D
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That said:
I think you should do it, for the multitude of reasons you posted.

I think flying a king air three or four times a month may do nothing for your day-to-day school work, but it will help you sell yourself to students and lend credibility to your list of accomplishments. Like you said.

I think straddling the 135 world with flight instruction is ultimately a good thing, even with the negatives that you pointed out.
 
jrh said:
Today the chief pilot for a local charter company offered me a part time job as a King Air 90 SIC. Basically he'd like to train in myself and three other local pilots to fly as Part 135 SICs, with each of us taking about 3 or 4 out and back trips per month. Each trip would be about 1-2 hours of flight time, with a bunch of sitting at the destination.

Pay would be $100/day + meals.

The thing I'm torn over is how to balance this against my obligation to the flight school I currently manage, as well as if I should bother with flying the King Airs at all.

I'm busier than I can handle at the flight school. The owner of the school has said he'd like to clone me, not see less of me. He said he won't specifically prohibit me from taking this King Air job, but he definitely doesn't like it, either. Nothing good will come to the flight school because of it.

I really do love my job at the flight school. I want to make a career out of flying and teaching in piston singles. I have nearly zero interest in the cargo/airline/corporate world.

With this in mind, I question what it would be worth to get experience as a King Air SIC. The pay isn't any good. The experience would eventually lead to flying as a Part 135 PIC...precisely what I'm not interested in. The flight time wouldn't even amount to much...probably less than 100 hours/year.

So why do I want to do it? I'm scared of getting "stale" as an instructor. I don't want to turn in to that old man at the airport who has 9000 hours of instruction given, yet hasn't done anything new to push himself for the past 20 years. I'm curious about Part 135 work. I want to be able to say I know what it's like, and that I can hack it as a Part 135 pilot. I want to be able to say with authority that I know how to fly a turbine powered aircraft. I want the "street cred" to say I've flown more than piston singles.

Plus, I have a whopping 42 hours of multi time right now. If anything ever tanks with my current job (not likely, but you never know), I'm nervous about how marketable I'd be anywhere else, just to pay the bills. I'm a darn good instructor and can fly almost any piston single you put me in, but outside of my local world, I think it might be tough to find work with 3000 TT and 42 multi. If I had a few hundred hours of King Air time, it might be enough to get me hired in a pinch.

Yet my boss and I agree that flying King Airs won't do much to further the career path I want for myself. I'm afraid I'm shooting myself in the foot to take time away from the school, not to mention that I'd be putting my boss into a bit of a tight spot by cutting back with him.

What do you think I should do?

Thanks in advance.
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I was in your spot a year ago. I always thought myself as a pretty good instructor, Instructed several thousand hours. Then I started flying 135 in the right seat of a King Air and Single pilot 310. I was really humbled. I really knew nothing about the 135 world and turbine world. I still Instruct and love doing it. And it only made me a better Instructor as I can now relate real world experience and stories in my lessons. The 10,000 hour Instructor pilot that mostly flew patterns seemed a little out of touch with real reality when I used them with a few of my students. Just my opinion.

Also you may find out you really enjoy it, although for me sitting right seat is hard with a two crew environment. I would rather just fly the airplane myself single pilot, I think I could do a better job. But Im learning to live with other pilots. :p
 
Just make sure all the Is are dotted and Ts are crossed as far as the SIC and 135 stuff. As in SICs are required for the operation and you get an SIC check out. If the legalities are taken care of, I'd say go for it.
 
If you're only getting 100 bucks a day I would be eating lobster for those free meals.

I think $100 is too low for any 135 work.
 
kellwolf said:
Just make sure all the Is are dotted and Ts are crossed as far as the SIC and 135 stuff. As in SICs are required for the operation and you get an SIC check out. If the legalities are taken care of, I'd say go for it.
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This. Plus, any education you can get or expansion of the knowledge you already have, is good.
 
Take it, you will learn about 135 ops, turbines, king airs, etc. Remember you may not want this career/path but some of your students probably do and now you have some valuable experience to add to your bag of knowledge. Plus you never know what opportunity this will present for you later on in life.
 
Thanks for all the feedback, everybody. This is exactly the kind of input I needed.

ScoutFlyer said:
I don't know how much "non-instruction" flying you do, but I know that I start to get in the "flying is just a job" rut when I go a spell without any flight time other than dual given. It sounds like you currently have a good gig that is rewarding to you. However, this could be an opportunity to do something else to break up those long spells of instruction if you can work a deal with the flight school.
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I do quite a bit of non-instruction flying. I fly skydivers a few days/month, plus I own a Cessna 140 that I cruise around in. Plus I ferry planes and teach in owner aircraft a lot. But I have considered doing the SIC thing in order to add even more variety to the mix. I get bored too easily.

dc3flyer said:
Only 3 or 4 days a month???? I would say do it. That is not a whole heck of a lot of time away from your instructing job. Your boss should understand that you are a long term employee and just want to do something to break it up a little. He should respect that.
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Three or four days doesn't sound like much, but it's actually quite a bit. As it stands now, I never work weekends. I'm basically talking about switching from a 5 day work week to a four day work week. Cutting back by 20%.

dc3flyer said:
I would tell the king air employer what you want to do with him, just a few trips a month and that you would like some time in advance before the trip to work it out with your schedule. I would try to avoid pop-up trips that really do put a strain on your instructing gig.
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Yes, I told the chief pilot that right off the bat. One of the features we're proud of at the school is that we never cancel a flight for anything other than weather or maintenance. Our customers don't get dropped because a time building instructor wants to run off and fly a charter at the last minute.

He understands that instructing is still my priority and I'm not going to drop everything just to get some multi turbine time. He respects that, and actually said that was one of the things he liked about me, that I wasn't the typical CFI out chasing time. He said they'd give about a week's notice for scheduling, except for middle of the night organ donor charters and such. And even then, I'd have the option of turning any trip down. That's why they're developing a small pool of SICs to draw from.

Douglas said:
Glad you are busy, JRH.
If your school is looking for instructors, we have about five guys that have passed or about to pass their CFI ride and we can't hire them all. I'd only recommend the good ones. :D
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Honestly, tell them to come over and say hello in person. I can say with certainty that they have zero chance of getting a job if they never show their face over here.

The problem we run in to is that it's hard to find really talented CFIs who are actually qualified and competent to teach in a broad enough range of aircraft. Really solid customer service skills, plus good teachers (real life Savvy Flight Instructor type people), plus the technical skills to deal with the various aircraft types.

One time I noticed I had 8 different aircraft types on one logbook page. There is a ton of variety here. SR-22, Mooney, 206, 182, DA-40, Cherokee Six, Corvalis, Arrow, Grumman, glass panel, conventional panel, private, instrument, commercial, you name it...we deal with it. But now, because I'm the "expert" on all this stuff, all the unique clients get assigned to me. Which means I get even more unique expertise and the cycle perpetuates itself. That's why my boss doesn't like the idea of me being gone more. Our other instructors aren't as good of a match for anything out of the ordinary. If anyone has ideas on how to break this cycle, I'm all ears.



Anyhow, I'm convinced I should take the SIC gig. Opportunities like this don't come up very often and I think I'd kick myself later if I don't try it out for a year or two. I'll find a way to smooth it over with my boss.
 
kellwolf said:
Just make sure all the Is are dotted and Ts are crossed as far as the SIC and 135 stuff. As in SICs are required for the operation and you get an SIC check out. If the legalities are taken care of, I'd say go for it.
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Yes, it's all legit. I'll be doing a Part 135 SIC checkride with the feds. It's a small charter company, but very by-the-book.
 
$100 a day is a bit tough to bite if your busy instructing. I think I'd shoot for $200 and go from there. It sounds neat, and it is something I would like to do myself, I just don't know how cheap I'd be able to work and still make it by.
 
jrh said:
Yes, it's all legit. I'll be doing a Part 135 SIC checkride with the feds. It's a small charter company, but very by-the-book.
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Cool. Because I was going to change your screenname to JerryWhite8 :D :sarcasm:
 
ryanmickG said:
If you're only getting 100 bucks a day I would be eating lobster for those free meals.

I think $100 is too low for any 135 work.
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Yes, I've talked to other pilots at this company and they eat very, very well ;)

I'm not doing this for the money though. I mean, I wouldn't do it for free, but I'm not going to argue over $100 vs. $150 or something. I make my living at a totally separate job. I don't need the cash. I'm only going to fly for them a few days/month and they're going to be dropping $5000-$8000 on my training. I think it's a fair deal for both sides.
 
jrh said:
I make my living at a totally separate job. I don't need the cash.
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Be careful that the 3-4 days a month don't interfere with your CFI job. Flight school owners have seen this a million times over. Once the Shiny Jet or Turboprop comes calling, instructors tend to put their students on the backburner. Not saying you will, but it is definitely something to be mindful of.
 
mojo6911 said:
Be careful that the 3-4 days a month don't interfere with your CFI job. Flight school owners have seen this a million times over. Once the Shiny Jet or Turboprop comes calling, instructors tend to put their students on the backburner. Not saying you will, but it is definitely something to be mindful of.
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Definitely. I'm very aware of this phenomena. The main difference with me is that I'm not looking to build shiny turboprop time, nor am I looking to get out of teaching. In fact, I'd rather be teaching than sitting in some old pilot lounge all day in Podunk, Nebraska. That's a big shift from the typical CFI who's hungry for every hour they can get.
 
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