Key Lime and Frontier (Near miss at Denver...)

[BobDDuck]

Real nice job by the F9 guys.

DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- A Frontier Airlines jet attempting to land Friday at Denver International Airport came within 50 feet of a smaller charter plane that had inadvertently entered the runway, federal aviation officials said.
The Frontier crew spotted the Key Lime Air plane in time, aborted the landing and continued flying until it could land the jetliner a short time later, authorities said. No injuries were reported.
Frontier and Key Lime officials declined to comment. Neither the airlines nor the investigators would say how many passengers were on the two planes. The National Transportation Safety Board and Federal Aviation Administration are investigating.
The NTSB said the Frontier Airbus A-319 from St. Louis, Missouri, had emerged from low clouds as it was about to land about 7:30 a.m. when the flight crew saw the charter plane.
The charter plane was to fly from Denver to Garfield County Regional Airport in western Colorado.
It was snowing and misty at the time, with half-mile visibility, but NTSB spokesman Ted Lopatkiewicz said there was no way to tell whether those conditions contributed to the incident.

 

[bdhill1979]

Near miss at Denver, Runway incursion.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/05/close.call.ap/index.html

 

[SteveC]

Re: Key Lime and Frontier

Email from the NTSB:

National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594

January 5, 2007

************************************************************

NTSB INVESTIGATING RUNWAY INCURSION TODAY AT DENVER AIRPORT

************************************************************

The National Transportation Safety Board is
investigating a runway incursion today at Denver
International Airport involving two airliners.

At 7:28 a.m. MST, Frontier Airlines flight 297, an
Airbus A-319, broke out of low clouds as it was about to
land on runway 35 left. The Frontier flight crew saw a
Swearingen Metroliner, Key Lime Air flight 4216, which had
inadvertently entered the runway. The Frontier flight
immediately executed a missed approach. It is estimated
that the aircraft came within 50 feet of each other.

The Airport Movement Area Safety System (AMASS)
alerted the control tower personnel of the situation at the
same time the Frontier crew saw the Metroliner on the
runway. Weather at the time of the incident was one-half mile
visibility, ceiling 600 feet overcast, snow and mist.

The Federal Aviation Administration is assisting in
the investigation.

NTSB Press Contact: Ted Lopatkiewicz
(202) 314-6100
lopatt@ntsb.gov

************************************************************

This message is delivered to you as a free service from the
National Transportation Safety Board.

 

[Killtron2000]

How do they know it was 50 feet?

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Just a guess but as the Key Lime aircraft was on the ground -- an altimeter, approach radar, etc.

 

[surreal1221]

I finally had the opportunity to explain PFJ to my wife today. I heard it on CNN and they said Key Lime I just about hit the floor stating a sarcastic "Damn PFJ'r." The wife inquires, and I finally am able to explain. . .the wife's reaction. . .

"So you're telling me. . . that some idiot is paying a company 30 grand to FLY . . . instead of being PAID to do it?

 

[Champcar]

PFJ?

Gulfstream is PFJ, paying to sit right seat SIC in a single pilot 135 op is not PFJ.

 

[surreal1221]

PFJ?

Gulfstream is PFJ, paying to sit right seat SIC in a single pilot 135 op is not PFJ.

As has been debated, and I have my opinion. I don't credit the pilots who take the chance to pay for such a great chance to sit right seat in a single pilot environment. I hold the company responsible for selling it, and taking advantage of some poor chum who is silly enough to pay them money to babysit, and observe. It better be one hell of a ride for 30-40k or however much they are charging.

 

[DE727UPS]

"paying to sit right seat SIC in a single pilot 135 op is not PFJ"

Don't you see a problem in your post? If it's single pilot, then why do you need a right seat SIC.

I agree that it's not PFJ but this sort of time is questionable for good reason.

 

[surreal1221]

You know, I was just thinking.

What if one of these hotshot rightseaters pays their money, and are a bit not so stable in the mind. They go nuts, kill the pilot, and take Key Lime's metroliner or whatever he is right seating in, right into the ground.

Do places like Key Lime not respect the security issue that could potentially occur with this type of scenario? Key Lime may never know when they have a loose cannon on their hands, but hey. . . they paid the price to ride, so ride they shall.

 

[taseal]

"paying to sit right seat SIC in a single pilot 135 op is not PFJ"

Don't you see a problem in your post? If it's single pilot, then why do you need a right seat SIC.

I agree that it's not PFJ but this sort of time is questionable for good reason.

thats why its not a job and thats why its not pfj I guess? lol if the right seat needed to be filled, then it would be a job and then a PFJ lol

 

[triple7]

There was a keylimer at the comair interview and apparently the tech guy from Comair had a field day with him. "How do you log PIC turbine in the right seat when you arent PIC?" I got the feeling from the way he described his tech interview that he wasnt about to be hired....although I could be wrong.

 

[MFT1Air]

You know, I was just thinking.

What if one of these hotshot rightseaters pays their money, and are a bit not so stable in the mind. They go nuts, kill the pilot, and take Key Lime's metroliner or whatever he is right seating in, right into the ground.

Do places like Key Lime not respect the security issue that could potentially occur with this type of scenario? Key Lime may never know when they have a loose cannon on their hands, but hey. . . they paid the price to ride, so ride they shall.

Your perspective regarding the mental aptitude of the rightseater lacks validity as it might relate to a PFJ/PFT situation, for the same mental, aberrant perspective could be said about any airline cockpit. . .no more, no less. It's not the most effective method for someone to pay to commit suicide in this particular manner unless you have a death wish, for it can be accomplished by just as easily renting an aircraft for training with a CFI onboard and performing the same hostile takeover.

 

[surreal1221]

Oh boy. . . thanks MFT1. I wasn't aware of cheaper scenarios of suicide. Oh, and it's not able having any amount of validity. It was a hypothetical scenario, destined to be a mere example of a nutcase right seat 30k check holder.

What I was getting is that I highly doubt Key Lime, or any PFJ location, spends enough money to do a proper medical evaluation on a potential 30k check holder.

Is anyone aware of a pilot that was fired by a PFJ outfit for denying a right seater (the one paying) a seat? Since you know, the PIC responsibility bit.