Key Lime Air

Douglas

Douglas

Old School KSUX
Key Lime Air is looking for a PA-31 (Navajo) VFR only Captain.
They are based in Denver.
Minimum flight time is 500 TT. Nothing said about Multi time.

Not a whole lot of information but that is all I know..
And I don't know if this is tied into their "Pay for Training" plan.

-Douglas
 
Oh by all that is holy, NO! Do not go there! Unless you like badly maintained planes, a horrible safety record, and the Feds ramping you once a week. Save your certificate and fly for someone else. The contract for SIC ing there is 24 months, unless you do PFT. PIC contract is $7K just for the Navajo. The Metroliner is operated single pilot. I believe the contract was 24 months at $14k and its is NOT pro-rated. (For the record I worked there as a PIC, I did not PFT or PFJ).

I was there for half a year, you may PM me if you want more details. They may be based in Denver, but you'll be highly encouraged to live at the outstations, espically since on Fridays they don't come back to Denver at night, the next flight back to Denver is Monday evening for MOST routes.

I'd would often write up planes that were signed off as "ops check good" and it would be painfully obvious nothing was done to see if things were fixed. Example: the de-ice boots. When I mentioned this I was told "well you cant always fix things on the first try" even though all you have to do is hit the button to see if they work or not..

The FAA ramp checks those guys A LOT, hell, their office is right next to the cargo ramp at DIA where most planes are parked.

They also played games with my paycheck, such as 'forgetting' when I got a pay raise, yet always noticing when I owed them even $5.

These are the guys that had a near miss with a Frontier A319 at DIA last winter because a metroliner taxiied onto the runway in front of them.

http://www.denverpost.com/watercooler/ci_7529642


Also 7 deaths in 8 years is a bit much.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-133241945.html
 
Agreed - stay the hell away from that place. Pilots getting violated, accidents, etc. Not worth it. They've had a bad rep as long as I can remember!!
 
Western Aviatiors is out in Denver, they fly out of Jeffco in Navajos. I did meet one of the guys from management there and he seemed alright, and the pilots I met from there didn't seem to have major complaints. Dunno about the times they want for new hires, but it may be worth a look.
 
Two other instances come to mind of me owing them: one was I screwed up the times I put down on my paysheet. I don't blame them for double checking, everyone makes mistakes, but they seemed to be a little less careful if the mistake was in their favor.

The second time was when I was driving one of their cars and they tried to stick me with a parking ticket someone else recieved driving that same car a few weeks earlier.

These were common mistakes that anyone could do, but with all the other junk they did, I no longer gave them the benefit of the doubt. I wasn't the only guy there that they forgot about a pay raise with, yet where on you like a fat kid on a cupcake if the mistake wasn't in management's favor. Maybe that's just human nature, but I still stand by my statement that I don't think its a good place to work at. :)
 
I posted it on my first reply, it's the first link. ;) Here's the real gem to that story: the guy in that incident was their director of training...
 
To put it simple. If I see Key Lime on some one's resume as their current or most recent employer, it goes in the junk pile. So even from a career building perspective, don't go there. You might have to get through a jerk of a recruiter like myself some day to get that dream job you really want. But if Key Lime was one of your very recent employers, you won't even be getting the call. I can't risk hiring people with bad judgement. Work here and it'll take a couple years of smart choices and career moves for me and some others I know in HR to see you learned how to exercise good judgement.
 
TexasFlyer said:
To put it simple. If I see Key Lime on some one's resume as their current or most recent employer, it goes in the junk pile. So even from a career building perspective, don't go there. You might have to get through a jerk of a recruiter like myself some day to get that dream job you really want. But if Key Lime was one of your very recent employers, you won't even be getting the call. I can't risk hiring people with bad judgement. Work here and it'll take a couple years of smart choices and career moves for me and some others I know in HR to see you learned how to exercise good judgement.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up- this right here oughta be enough incentive for ANY aspiring/up and coming pilot to steer clear!

There here's what JC's all about, folks! :)
 
TexasFlyer said:
To put it simple. If I see Key Lime on some one's resume as their current or most recent employer, it goes in the junk pile. So even from a career building perspective, don't go there. You might have to get through a jerk of a recruiter like myself some day to get that dream job you really want. But if Key Lime was one of your very recent employers, you won't even be getting the call. I can't risk hiring people with bad judgement. Work here and it'll take a couple years of smart choices and career moves for me and some others I know in HR to see you learned how to exercise good judgement.
Click to expand...

Wait just a sec! Just because the employee worked there, you'd punish him/her because the company is crappy?!? Just having worked there doesn't equal bad judgement. Some pilots may not know how crappy they are until they get there. When I interviewed they made a huge effort to show how safe they were, so I believed they were changing their tune. I heard they had a not great reputation at the time I applied, but I had no idea how bad they were. Obviously I was wrong, but hindsight is always 20/20.

I stood up for myself to not fly when I felt the plane was unsafe, and quit when they strong encouraged me to begin doing dumb things. While I do not respect Key Lime, I wouldn't trade my IFR experience gained there for anything. Sadly Key Lime isn't a minority in the cargo world for their practices. I know a few ex Key Limers that work for very respectable companies now and would trust them flying my family. I sure as hell trust em more than some 400 hr FO with a CRJ course they had at flight school.

Just because you are/were a freight dog doesn't mean you're a cowboy pilot. Key Lime may strongly encourage you to fly when it's not safe but they aren't stupid enough to force a pilot to break a reg, how do you think the FAA hasn't pulled thier certificate yet? (Even though, they really, really, should).
 
Number1atNumber2 said:
Oh by all that is holy, NO! Do not go there! Unless you like badly maintained planes, a horrible safety record, and the Feds ramping you once a week. Save your certificate and fly for someone else. The contract for SIC ing there is 24 months, unless you do PFT. PIC contract is $7K just for the Navajo. The Metroliner is operated single pilot. I believe the contract was 24 months at $14k and its is NOT pro-rated. (For the record I worked there as a PIC, I did not PFT or PFJ).

I was there for half a year, you may PM me if you want more details. They may be based in Denver, but you'll be highly encouraged to live at the outstations, espically since on Fridays they don't come back to Denver at night, the next flight back to Denver is Monday evening for MOST routes.

I'd would often write up planes that were signed off as "ops check good" and it would be painfully obvious nothing was done to see if things were fixed. Example: the de-ice boots. When I mentioned this I was told "well you cant always fix things on the first try" even though all you have to do is hit the button to see if they work or not..

The FAA ramp checks those guys A LOT, hell, their office is right next to the cargo ramp at DIA where most planes are parked.

They also played games with my paycheck, such as 'forgetting' when I got a pay raise, yet always noticing when I owed them even $5.

These are the guys that had a near miss with a Frontier A319 at DIA last winter because a metroliner taxiied onto the runway in front of them.

http://www.denverpost.com/watercooler/ci_7529642


Also 7 deaths in 8 years is a bit much.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-133241945.html
Click to expand...

I like how the article refers to the incident as a "near hit" FINALLY, somebody gets it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Texas, I appologize if my response came back a bit on the 'hot' side. I understand not wanting to hire guys with bad judgement. And there are plenty of cowboy pilots at Key Slime, but there are (were) good ones too. My point is don't judge too quickly. We all make bad choices, hopefully we turn them from "bad chioces" into good experiences and good judgement afterwards.

We've all done dumb things in the plane and made life choices we would change in hindsight, it just comes down to what we learn.
 
Number1atNumber2 said:
Wait just a sec! Just because the employee worked there, you'd punish him/her because the company is crappy?!? Just having worked there doesn't equal bad judgement. Some pilots may not know how crappy they are until they get there. When I interviewed they made a huge effort to show how safe they were, so I believed they were changing their tune. I heard they had a not great reputation at the time I applied, but I had no idea how bad they were. Obviously I was wrong, but hindsight is always 20/20.
Click to expand...

Companies can be smoke and mirrors sometimes. Things can look good until you start working there first hand. But guess what. This is the world of technology now. I would question if you actually researched them before hand. A simple Google search would turn up worlds of complaints and discontent about them. So if you can't use Google or modern tools for research, I'd question your viability as an employee. So yes. Good chance you won't get a call just for having that on the resume as your CURRENT employer or very RECENT employer.

I understand, no one is perfect. Heck, I made some bad moves mysef over the years that I learned from. That's why if it's on the resume in the past, maybe a non-issue. I'll see what you learned from that decision and why you left after such a short time with them (or why you stuck around so long if it gets to over the 18-24 month point since that would raise many concerns).

Now if you left Key Lime to go to Gulfstream Airlines, you'll never get the call since you clearly do lack good judgement.

Now if you went from there to Airnet, I may like that decision better and after a couple years with Airnet you've redeemed yourself. Expect the call from me.

Sometimes life is not fair.


Number1atNumber2 said:
I stood up for myself to not fly when I felt the plane was unsafe, and quit when they strong encouraged me to begin doing dumb things.
Click to expand...

That's a good answer. I'd assume you did not stick around for 2+ years, since you realized this is not how things need to be. And you used better judgement on the next hiring situation. I bet you did more research!

Now, if you worked for them back in 1999 or even 2001, maybe a lot of word was not on the street yet about them. But anyone from about 2003 and beyond should have had the resources to research them in advance. So anything after that point would cause me to have to dig deep. After all, how people make career decisions is a good guideline to their overall judgement when faced with many difficult choices.


Number1atNumber2 said:
While I do not respect Key Lime, I wouldn't trade my IFR experience gained there for anything.
Click to expand...

Yes. The life of a freight dawg. It is valued. So long as the experience you refer to was not gained in unsafe situations. But then, there are much better freight outfits to gain the same experience.
 
TexasFlyer,
I think you should use Google to research how to be a recruiter. Clearly you have no idea about how the industry works. I would be curious as to which airlines would trust your obvious lack of judgement to hire qualified pilots. I know plenty of people who have left operations worse than Key Lime to work for Southwest, avantair, etc.. Just because someone goes to a sleazy 135 cargo operation does not mean they lack judgement. Sometimes one has to take certain jobs to get to where they want to go to simply time build and IFR skills, etc.. It builds character and most people in aviation start from the bottom and work there way up. Its how most industries work. Again you can research that via Goolge. <edited unnecessary sentiment>
 
rossy1163 said:
<EDITED!>
Click to expand...

Sorry you feel that way.

On a reality check note, I am not some general recruiter who gives everyone an equal chance. I work for companies in business aviation that pay anywhere from $20k to $40k to find one person many times. And it is always a pretty confidential national search for the right person. Why? They aren't looking for the average person. They have a specific criteria and high standard for the position in question. So they will settle for no less. And they know I can cut through all the average Joe's in the world to find the one they desire. And while they may have 10 positions open, I only work on one or two since the rest of the positions they can hire the average person into.

So if I was some recruiter in an airline or at a company filling a volume of positions, I would need to change my practices. But for what I do, things are very specific. So I know what companies want since I only find and work with the top 10% of all people in the industry. I also coach those on career direction who want to become the top 10% since it's usually not too late to fix a questionable past.

So I wrote my opinion above based on the facts of an indusrty I experience every day. And also to inform those starting out that may not realize how early decisions may affect them in the short or long term. Some just want to fly and have no ambition to be an executive in the future. That is fine. Nothing wrong with that. But if you want an executive level job in the future within corporate aviation, there are many things to consider to include your company choices, career path, growing level of responsibility over time, and job stability along with the timing of each change you make.

If you felt forced to work in bad conditions or for a marginal company, that's a choice you made based on factors in your life at the time. It's a shame some feel like you have to be abused to pay your dues, but that's people's choice if they choose such. It's just important for pilots to know (and any professional) that those choices could have short term consequences; limited long term consequences unless a history of bad decisions is demonstrated.
 
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