KCM since the no uniform change

[Jpax]

No it doesn't. You have a reading comprehension issue if so. Post #100 understood.

You stated "For those of you that have been randomly selected out of uniform for the full show, were you given the option to put your uniform on in order to keep your liquids?" which means that you personally have broken the liquids restriction, or you are wondering if anyone who has was given the option of putting the uniform back on.

If anyone gets caught inside security with big liquids out of uniform, I will laugh at them for violating a pretty basic and fairly oft-stated policy.

Again, if you would like to re-read it:

"Why would you attempt to violate the liquids restriction via KCM?" as in, go through the alternate screening area OUT OF UNIFORM (which is this entire discussion) so they don't find your out-of-compliance liquids.

First off, relax, a lot. You're getting way too excited over the interwebnetz. No need for personal attacks, again. Second, what liquid restriction may have been broken? You are exempt from the liquids restriction while going through KCM, uniform or not. If you get randomly selected to go through the full screening while not uniform, your liquids must be 3.4oz or less.

"If anyone gets caught inside security with big liquids out of uniform, I will laugh at them for violating a pretty basic and fairly oft-stated policy."

This is simply not true. There is nothing illegal about it, if you brought your liquids through KCM out of uniform, or through a security checkpoint in uniform.

 

[derg]

If you get randomly selected to go through the full screening while not uniform, your liquids must be 3.4oz or less.

…if you're not in uniform.

And while it's going to be a pain in the butt for those choosing not to wear a uniform, I pray someone doesn't make a fuss 'right thurr' and make it bad for the rest of us who are just trying to get to work as efficiently as possible.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

First off, relax, a lot. You're getting way too excited over the interwebnetz. No need for personal attacks, again. Second, what liquid restriction may have been broken? You are exempt from the liquids restriction while going through KCM, uniform or not. If you get randomly selected to go through the full screening while not uniform, your liquids must be 3.4oz or less.

"If anyone gets caught inside security with big liquids out of uniform, I will laugh at them for violating a pretty basic and fairly oft-stated policy."

This is simply not true. There is nothing illegal about it, if you brought your liquids through KCM out of uniform, or through a security checkpoint in uniform.

Pertinent ALPA email quoted:

New Uniform Policy
Effective January 13, 2015, crewmembers are no longer required to wear uniforms when utilizing KCM access points at airports nationwide. As pilots are well aware, uniformed crewmembers are allowed certain exemptions by the TSA when they are screened at KCM access points and passenger screening checkpoints. Although the uniform requirement has been eliminated, a non-uniformed crewmember who is randomly selected to go through passenger security screening will be treated as a passenger. The practical effect of this policy is that non-uniformed crewmembers will not be granted exemptions that uniformed crewmembers enjoy at passenger screening checkpoints. This is a long-standing screening protocol, but we have asked TSA to change it. ALPA believes that pilots in or out of uniform should receive the same exemptions at the security screening checkpoint, provided that they have the required identification in their possession. The membership will be kept apprised of developments in this regard.

So, are we on the same page?

You cannot utilize the exemption when not in uniform. If you are randomly screened once you are in the AOA, you are out of uniform, and don't meet the restriction requirements, they won't just confiscate your stuff. You could be fired, as well as fined and jailed.

Make sense?

 

[surreal1221]

…if you're not in uniform. And while it's going to be a pain in the butt for those choosing not to wear a uniform, I pray someone doesn't make a fuss 'right thurr' and make it bad for the rest of us who are just trying to get to work as efficiently as possible.

So then, let's just get rid of the civilian clothes allowance and make the uniform mandatory once again and thus a reduction in headaches may occur. At least on the interwebs. Especially if all they're gonna do is scope out the "crew" bag being dragged by a civilian when they do their random gate screenings.

This is a farce and we all pretty much know it. Regardless of the clothes on our back, we are one of the most highly investigated bunch of folks and if it's A-OOOOkay for the TSA to let a civilian dressed crewmember through KCM with their larger than life liquids it darn well should be just A-OOOOkay for that same CREWMEMBER to still be in possession of said liquids when they are traveling.

I guess those of you who get pinged for the random screening should head off to the restroom before security and change into the superhero outfit so you can keep your 12 oz Paul Mitchell Tea Tree shampoo...I know I will be. And then, I'll go ahead and keep the uniform on until I am at my final destination.

 

[derg]

So then, let's just get rid of the civilian clothes allowance and make the uniform mandatory once again and thus a reduction in headaches may occur. At least on the interwebs. Especially if all they're gonna do is scope out the "crew" bag being dragged by a civilian when they do their random gate screenings.

This is a farce and we all pretty much know it. Regardless of the clothes on our back, we are one of the most highly investigated bunch of folks and if it's A-OOOOkay for the TSA to let a civilian dressed crewmember through KCM with their larger than life liquids it darn well should be just A-OOOOkay for that same CREWMEMBER to still be in possession of said liquids when they are traveling.

I guess those of you who get pinged for the random screening should head off to the restroom before security and change into the superhero outfit so you can keep your 12 oz Paul Mitchell Tea Tree shampoo...I know I will be. And then, I'll go ahead and keep the uniform on until I am at my final destination.

I gotta Dr. Phil you here, but you do agree that KCM is an "option".

So if you'd like to avoid the "farce", please feel free to use the standard security lane.

But if you'd really like to get selected, then run to the bathroom to change into your uniform, please feel free.

I love hotdogs. I prefer beef franks. If the free hotdogs are the beef-pork-chicken blend, I can or cannot eat them.

 

[surreal1221]

I gotta Dr. Phil you here, but you do agree that KCM is an "option". So if you'd like to avoid the "farce", please feel free to use the standard security lane. But if you'd really like to get selected, then run to the bathroom to change into your uniform, please feel free. I love hotdogs. I prefer beef franks. If the free hotdogs are the beef-pork-chicken blend, I can or cannot eat them.

Fair enough.

Or, as I also proposed - stay in uniform.

Prior to me rolling through the full security I have yet to penetrate the AOA, and I know of absolutely no regulation or law that inhibits my changing into uniform to go through security. ((As my last example above indicated)) I'll still be tossing up a plastic bowl, or two to be exact, as my bags go through the little detector that finds all the naughty stuff.

 

[derg]

Fair enough.

Or, as I also proposed - stay in uniform.

Prior to me rolling through the full security I have yet to penetrate the AOA, and I know of absolutely no regulation or law that inhibits my changing into uniform to go through security. ((As my last example above indicated)) I'll still be tossing up a plastic bowl, or two to be exact, as my bags go through the little detector that finds all the naughty stuff.

Truth.

I use both.

Going through the KCM point in DTW a couple months ago, there was a long line and a plethora of "people who didn't approach the KCM point with efficiency in mind" — they would exchange pleasantries, dig around in their bag for their passport, slowly open the page, pull out their ID, dig around in their bag for their KCM card, attempt to scan it a few times, ungh.

So I just backtracked, went through regular security and I probably saved at least five minutes.

I'm a fan of low hassle, minimal exposure, low drama, and speed speed speed.

No complaining, no questions, minimal pleasantries, just hand the passport to hte worker, scan the card on the back of my ID, roll it back around so they can see it and "come on through…"

 

[surreal1221]

Truth. I use both. Going through the KCM point in DTW a couple months ago, there was a long line and a plethora of "people who didn't approach the KCM point with efficiency in mind" — they would exchange pleasantries, dig around in their bag for their passport, slowly open the page, pull out their ID, dig around in their bag for their KCM card, attempt to scan it a few times, ungh. So I just backtracked, went through regular security and I probably saved at least five minutes. I'm a fan of low hassle, minimal exposure, low drama, and speed speed speed. No complaining, no questions, minimal pleasantries, just hand the passport to hte worker, scan the card on the back of my ID, roll it back around so they can see it and "come on through…"

Word.

You and I are on the same track, at the same speed, headed in the same direction, with about 5 miles in trail...

It's a smooth ride.

You see though, YOUR grandmothers at D can at least still walk a few miles without passing out. Some of OUR grandmothers can't even put their seventeen bags into an overhead bin much less make a 500 yard trek from KCM to Pre-Check, or know where half of their junk is from the moment they leave their rooms to actually getting to the airport.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

PIf you are randomly screened once you are in the AOA, you are out of uniform, and don't meet the restriction requirements, they won't just confiscate your stuff. You could be fired, as well as fined and jailed.

Dude, chill. I don't know where you're coming up with this stuff. No one is going to jail for carrying some shampoo. I've been carrying full size liquids straight through the security checkpoints wearing civilian business attire for years. Even the notoriously dooshy TSA in DC usually let it go. If you're got an ID and crew bag, they usually don't even question it. It's not that big of a deal. Worst case scenario, I'm buying a new tube of toothpaste.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Dude, chill. I don't know where you're coming up with this stuff. No one is going to jail for carrying some shampoo. I've been carrying full size liquids straight through the security checkpoints wearing civilian business attire for years. Even the notoriously dooshy TSA in DC usually let it go. If you're got an ID and crew bag, they usually don't even question it. It's not that big of a deal. Worst case scenario, I'm buying a new tube of toothpaste.

Anyone who still has access to Pinnacle / Endeavor memos could probably back me up. Between that and Pinnacle recurrent security, they put the fear of God in us about getting caught doing various things like violating the liquids restriction.

As an example, we were specifically told multiple times that crewmembers have been fired and subsequently fined by TSA for using SIDA to deadhead. "Required to be screened" or else.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Anyone who still has access to Pinnacle / Endeavor memos could probably back me up. Between that and Pinnacle recurrent security, they put the fear of God in us about getting caught doing various things like violating the liquids restriction.

Rule #1: Never listen to anything Pinnacle tells anyone.

Rule #2: When in doubt, refer back to Rule #1.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Rule #1: Never listen to anything Pinnacle tells anyone.

Rule #2: When in doubt, refer back to Rule #1.

True, for the longest time they gave me the impression that KCM was only for work purposes. I'm glad it's finally clarified that I can use it as a non-rev to go places.

I still think it's funny though that you "can't carry someone else's non-compliant liquids/gels/aerosols" through for them. How will TSA ascertain it's not mine if I don't give a non-exempt person access to the bag/stuff?

http://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf/enforcement_sanction_guidance_policy.pdf

That document, towards the end, covers some of the things I'm sure people have been threatened with at least.

We just got a nasty-gram telling us if selected for additional screening, do not leave, go grab food/hang out somewhere for a while, and attempt KCM again.

 

[Rocketman99]

Even reading that ALPA memo, I think you're reading it wrong. I read that as In if I an not in uniform, I am not exempt from the liquids restriction IF I GET SELECTED FOR EXTRA SPECIAL FUN TIME. Not just for going through KCM.

So kinda funny history story. I never saw it explained that the liquids/whatever rule only applied to folks in uniform. For the longest time I was based or always traveled out of LGA and you did not need to be in uniform for anything involving security. Liquids, alcohol, whatever was fine is long as you had a crew badge, and you still got to cut the whole line. I assumed it was like that everywhere outside of small SS TSA nazi airports like Presque Isle, as I'd never had any trouble.

Fast forward a few years to when I got based in EWR. A couple months in I was getting ready to catch a flight for a little vacation. Still not in uniform as always. Go through the crew line at C3 run my bags through...all of a sudden.
- Ho ho hold on there. You can't have this toothpaste.
Umm, ok. <perplexed look> Why?
- You're not in uniform
Since when does that matter?
- You are not exempt out of uniform, badge or not.
Well that sucks, guess I need to get new toothpaste later
- Sorry about that..

Yes, the screener really did say sorry. So thus began the displeasure of now always being in "uniform" when I travel. Where uniform is defined as dark slacks and an old uniform shirt (or sometimes a white polo shirt in the summer ala southworst) which is often changed after I get through security.

Glad we're all safe.

 

[falconvalley]

Even reading that ALPA memo, I think you're reading it wrong. I read that as In if I an not in uniform, I am not exempt from the liquids restriction IF I GET SELECTED FOR EXTRA SPECIAL FUN TIME. Not just for going through KCM.

So kinda funny history story. I never saw it explained that the liquids/whatever rule only applied to folks in uniform. For the longest time I was based or always traveled out of LGA and you did not need to be in uniform for anything involving security. Liquids, alcohol, whatever was fine is long as you had a crew badge, and you still got to cut the whole line. I assumed it was like that everywhere outside of small SS TSA nazi airports like Presque Isle, as I'd never had any trouble.

Fast forward a few years to when I got based in EWR. A couple months in I was getting ready to catch a flight for a little vacation. Still not in uniform as always. Go through the crew line at C3 run my bags through...all of a sudden.
- Ho ho hold on there. You can't have this toothpaste.
Umm, ok. <perplexed look> Why?
- You're not in uniform
Since when does that matter?
- You are not exempt out of uniform, badge or not.
Well that sucks, guess I need to get new toothpaste later
- Sorry about that..

Yes, the screener really did say sorry. So thus began the displeasure of now always being in "uniform" when I travel. Where uniform is defined as dark slacks and an old uniform shirt (or sometimes a white polo shirt in the summer ala southworst) which is often changed after I get through security.

Glad we're all safe.

Funny you mention LGA. I was DHing out of there in 2007 after sim and got stopped for exactly that. Said I couldn't have big toothpaste out of uniform.

 

[Dugie8]

Is there an exact definition of "uniform" for this?

 

[scooter2525]

Is there an exact definition of "uniform" for this?

Polo and khaki pants

 

[derg]

Is there an exact definition of "uniform" for this?

Just wear the uniform.

Otherwise it's like asking a cop "Well, how drunk is too drunk?"

Actually, I believe I asked a cop that once, but then things got real dark and painful after that.

Mom was not happy.

 

[Dan208B]

Just wear the uniform.

Actually in SEA it's really not an option. I came up to a long KCM line one day and instead went to regular security. They asked if I had KCM and I said yes but I was electing to go through here and they said no, you'll have to wait and use KCM, no crewmembers allowed in the regular line anymore if they are KCM eligible. I didn't bother to ask what happens when I go over there and get randomly selected.

 

[elmetal]

Actually in SEA it's really not an option. I came up to a long KCM line one day and instead went to regular security. They asked if I had KCM and I said yes but I was electing to go through here and they said no, you'll have to wait and use KCM, no crewmembers allowed in the regular line anymore if they are KCM eligible. I didn't bother to ask what happens when I go over there and get randomly selected.

That's ridiculous.

 

[Dugie8]

Just wear the uniform.

Otherwise it's like asking a cop "Well, how drunk is too drunk?"

Actually, I believe I asked a cop that once, but then things got real dark and painful after that.

Mom was not happy.

With this being extended to 135 folks, THANKS ALPA, my uniform may not be the same as your uniform.

Nothing nefarious here, just looking for clarification.