KCM since the no uniform change

elmetal said:
Because the restriction isn't there if you just happen to put on that generic uniform that's already folded in your bag...

It baffles me that TSA uses the uniform to allow us to bypass the liquids rule. The ID is the hardest thing to obtain. Anybody can buy a uniform.
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Some goober shining a black light at my ID doesn't really fill me with confidence when it comes to security either. Fake IDs were easy enough to come by in college...(or so I am told)
 
elmetal said:
Because the restriction isn't there if you just happen to put on that generic uniform that's already folded in your bag...
It baffles me that TSA uses the uniform to allow us to bypass the liquids rule. The ID is the hardest thing to obtain. Anybody can buy a uniform.
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Agreed. Glad they fixed the uniform requirement for KCM, hopefully liquids are to follow in the future. I just love policies with literally no sense behind them.
 
Let me get this straight. Please correct me if I'm wrong at any point. I do welcome that.

We finally have KCM and even kept it after a few "incidents".

If you wear your uniform, nothing has really changed. If you're "randomly" selected for additional screening, you are able to use the "Known Traveler" line and enjoy those benefits PLUS possessing non size-compliant liquids.

If you do not wear your uniform, you screen as a regular passenger, which incurs some risk and judgement because the standard liquids allowance applies the unwashed masses endure.

…and some pilots are grumpy...
 
Derg said:
Let me get this straight. Please correct me if I'm wrong at any point. I do welcome that.

We finally have KCM and even kept it after a few "incidents".

If you wear your uniform, nothing has really changed. If you're "randomly" selected for additional screening, you are able to use the "Known Traveler" line and enjoy those benefits PLUS possessing non size-compliant liquids.

If you do not wear your uniform, you screen as a regular passenger, which incurs some risk and judgement because the standard liquids allowance applies the unwashed masses endure.

…and some pilots are grumpy...
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Alright... Alright... You make a good case.
 
Derg said:
Let me get this straight. Please correct me if I'm wrong at any point. I do welcome that.

We finally have KCM and even kept it after a few "incidents".

If you wear your uniform, nothing has really changed. If you're "randomly" selected for additional screening, you are able to use the "Known Traveler" line and enjoy those benefits PLUS possessing non size-compliant liquids.

If you do not wear your uniform, you screen as a regular passenger, which incurs some risk and judgement because the standard liquids allowance applies the unwashed masses endure.

…and some pilots are grumpy...
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And now we know WHY they're unwashed. The TSA took their shampoo!
 
Derg said:
…and some pilots are grumpy...
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I could have sworn that was in my job description!


Unfortunately this whole uniform vs no uniform thing always lacked logic. We are making headway with this KCM change but there clearly is a bit more that needs fixed.

This essentially is like when I tried to take a coffee through the Canadian's version of TSA in Quebec. They told me I could throw it away or put it in my luggage. Why it all of a sudden is now a "safe" liquid when enclosed and sploshing around in my luggage is beyond me. Having a uniform on somehow makes us "safer" as well. (I know this is preaching to the choir).

I would love to have easy access on the security rules for crew members (other than KCM, government websites are built for passengers) but my security committee doesn't have any info available and did not respond to my email asking about such a resource.
 
Maurus said:
I could have sworn that was in my job description!


Unfortunately this whole uniform vs no uniform thing always lacked logic. We are making headway with this KCM change but there clearly is a bit more that needs fixed.

This essentially is like when I tried to take a coffee through the Canadian's version of TSA in Quebec. They told me I could throw it away or put it in my luggage. Why it all of a sudden is now a "safe" liquid when enclosed and sploshing around in my luggage is beyond me. Having a uniform on somehow makes us "safer" as well. (I know this is preaching to the choir).

I would love to have easy access on the security rules for crew members (other than KCM, government websites are built for passengers) but my security committee doesn't have any info available and did not respond to my email asking about such a resource.
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Traffic flow.

Plus, I can think of three different scenarios that would form a security gap if they didn't do it this way. :) And no, they're not for the internet.
 
Derg said:
Let me get this straight. Please correct me if I'm wrong at any point. I do welcome that.

We finally have KCM and even kept it after a few "incidents".

If you wear your uniform, nothing has really changed. If you're "randomly" selected for additional screening, you are able to use the "Known Traveler" line and enjoy those benefits PLUS possessing non size-compliant liquids.

If you do not wear your uniform, you screen as a regular passenger, which incurs some risk and judgement because the standard liquids allowance applies the unwashed masses endure.

…and some pilots are grumpy...
Click to expand...
Not to belabor the point, but identity validation is a key basis of all real security. If I can validate my identity as a Part 121 pilot, it doesn't really matter in the big security scheme of things what I'm wearing at the time. Uniform vs. not is not a risk-based way to evaluate what sort of screening I receive, and that is the whole point of Known Crewmember and other "known traveler" programs: a risk-based assessment resulting in less of a holdup.
 
Got an email today saying if you are 135 and in the twelve-five program that you can qualify for the KCM line. Looks like you just need to go on the NATA website and sign your company up.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Not to belabor the point, but identity validation is a key basis of all real security. If I can validate my identity as a Part 121 pilot, it doesn't really matter in the big security scheme of things what I'm wearing at the time. Uniform vs. not is not a risk-based way to evaluate what sort of screening I receive, and that is the whole point of Known Crewmember and other "known traveler" programs: a risk-based assessment resulting in less of a holdup.
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The only possible security issues I can see is, well, none really.

If they want to feel better about it they can run your stuff through the KCM validation stuff first before dragging you off for the random check.

scott_l said:
Got an email today saying if you are 135 and in the twelve-five program that you can qualify for the KCM line. Looks like you just need to go on the NATA website and sign your company up.
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Unfortunately 135 companies are not exactly known for their willingness to spend money. I do believe the companies are require to pay for KCM. I really can only see companies like NetJets putting the money up front.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Not to belabor the point, but identity validation is a key basis of all real security. If I can validate my identity as a Part 121 pilot, it doesn't really matter in the big security scheme of things what I'm wearing at the time. Uniform vs. not is not a risk-based way to evaluate what sort of screening I receive, and that is the whole point of Known Crewmember and other "known traveler" programs: a risk-based assessment resulting in less of a holdup.
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Two words: Traffic Management
 
Maurus said:
The only possible security issues I can see is, well, none really.

If they want to feel better about it they can run your stuff through the KCM validation stuff first before dragging you off for the random check.
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Every time I have been randomly selected I was put through validation first.
 
T-Gates said:
It's been that way for a long time, even pre-KCM.
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Yes. However, there was a change in policy. Not that I'm suggesting it should make any sense whatsoever. IMO, KCM should have meant the end of that policy, as I am trusted to be able to differentiate the difference between a gun and a ham sandwich. I should be able to tell the difference between a tube of toothpaste and a binary liquid explosive.
 
Jpax said:
Please tell me this entire time, you've been going through KCM with little TSA-fun-sized liquids?
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Uh, no.
I'm stating the obvious. Don't be an idiot and go through without a uniform carrying big liquids. Whatever punishment someone gets for that they deserve, so the rest of us can use it correctly.

By the way, I always utilize the crew-member exemption, even in Europe. So I'm always in uniform.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
Uh, no.
I'm stating the obvious. Don't be an idiot and go through without a uniform carrying big liquids. Whatever punishment someone gets for that they deserve, so the rest of us can use it correctly.

By the way, I always utilize the crew-member exemption, even in Europe. So I'm always in uniform.
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What you said and what you wanted to say are different things. Your original post conveys an entirely different message.
 
Jpax said:
What you said and what you wanted to say are different things. Your original post conveys an entirely different message.
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No it doesn't. You have a reading comprehension issue if so. Post #100 understood.

You stated "For those of you that have been randomly selected out of uniform for the full show, were you given the option to put your uniform on in order to keep your liquids?" which means that you personally have broken the liquids restriction, or you are wondering if anyone who has was given the option of putting the uniform back on.

If anyone gets caught inside security with big liquids out of uniform, I will laugh at them for violating a pretty basic and fairly oft-stated policy.

Again, if you would like to re-read it:

"Why would you attempt to violate the liquids restriction via KCM?" as in, go through the alternate screening area OUT OF UNIFORM (which is this entire discussion) so they don't find your out-of-compliance liquids.
 
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