KATL and Practice Approaches

chillbillpilot

New Member
Just wondering if any of you controllers know whether or not GA aircraft are allowed to practice instrument approaches into Hartsfield? I have talked to 2 different controllers and have gotten two different answers. Hoping someone might be able to clear this up for me? Obviously this would not be happening during the day but late at night when the traffic is not as busy.

Also while I have your guys attention I have a second question? There has been alot of debate as to when to report crossing a fix when holding? Once again I have gotten several different answers from different qualified sources. Do you guys want us to report established in the hold the first time we hit the fix, or the first time we cross the fix once we are in the hold. For example, if doing a parallel entry into a hold I could report hitting xyz fix the first time or should I just wait till I've done my parellel entry and report then? Thanks for your guys input in advance.
Bill
 

gatorbuc99

Well-Known Member
Practice approaches, touch and goes, low approaches aren't allowed, technically at least anyway. I dunno if you catch a guy ona good day at 3am if he'd say no, but as i understand it, technically they're not allowed to do that. Part of it, i'd imagine is per the city of Atlanta. They want to collect as many landing and ramp fees as possible and they can't do that if you're only on terra firma for a few seconds or not at all :)
 

kiloalpha

Well-Known Member
I remember in my time building for commerical I did a touch and go at DEN, with an intermittent Mode C transponder... Yeah, I'm sure I didn't make any new ATC friends that night.
 

JEP

Malko In Charge
Staff member
Just wondering if any of you controllers know whether or not GA aircraft are allowed to practice instrument approaches into Hartsfield? I have talked to 2 different controllers and have gotten two different answers. Hoping someone might be able to clear this up for me? Obviously this would not be happening during the day but late at night when the traffic is not as busy.

Also while I have your guys attention I have a second question? There has been alot of debate as to when to report crossing a fix when holding? Once again I have gotten several different answers from different qualified sources. Do you guys want us to report established in the hold the first time we hit the fix, or the first time we cross the fix once we are in the hold. For example, if doing a parallel entry into a hold I could report hitting xyz fix the first time or should I just wait till I've done my parellel entry and report then? Thanks for your guys input in advance.
Bill
straight from the approach plate:

Additional Remarks
- ALL RYS, TOUCH AND GO OPERATIONS, LOW APPROACHES, AND PRACTICE INSTRUMENT APPROACHES NOT PERMITTED.
- GROUP VI ACFT(LOCKHEED GALAXY-5; ANTONOV AN-124 & AN-125) WITH A WINGSPAN OF GREATER THAN 214 FT ARE RESTRICTED FM USING TWY 'L' EAST OF RAMP 5 SOUTH TO THE WEST SIDE OF RAMP 6 SOUTH, AND TWY F EAST OF RAMP 5 NORTH AND WEST OF TWY DIXIE.
- ASDE-X SURVEILLANCE SYSTEM IN USE: PILOTS SHOULD OPERATE TRANSPONDERS WITH MODE C ON ALL TWYS AND RWYS.
- ACFT WITH WINGSPAN GREATER THAN 171 FT ARE RSTRD FROM USING TWY V.
- BE ALERT TO RY CROSSING CLEARANCES. READBACK OF ALL RY HOLDING INSTRUCTIONS IS REQUIRED.
- PREFERENTIAL RY USE IN EFFECT, EXPECT TO USE RYS 08R/26L, 09L/27R FOR DEPS; RYS 08L/26R, 09R/27L ARE USED PRIMARILY FOR ARRIVALS.
- RUNUPS ARE PERMITTED AT VARIOUS SITES; COORDINATE USE OF CITY FACILITIES, MOVEMENT AREAS, ALLOWABLE NON-MOVEMENT AREAS WITH DEPT OF AVIATION OPNS, 404-530-6620; AND COORDINATE THE USE OF THE AIRLINES' FACILITIES WITH THEM.
- NOISE & OPNS MONITORING SYSTEM (NOMS) PROGRAM IN EFFECT; CALL THE ATLANTA DEPT OF AVIATION 770-43-NOISE OR 770-436-6473 FOR MORE INFO.
As to the 2nd question, I have never heard anything other than reporting 'inbound'. So you cross the fix on your entry, make your turn inbound, cross the fix, and then report.
 

Barty

Well-Known Member
The guys in the tower aren't tax collectors for the city of Atlanta, so workload permitting, they'll let you do a full stop and taxi directly back to the runway during the evening hours if you ask nicely. I've done it twice and neither time was I ever charged a landing fee. I can't speak about a practice approach, they *MIGHT* let you do one if there is little or no traffic in the wee hours of the morning.

If you go to the FBO, that's another issue. Once I landed there and got charged a landing fee and ramp fee, another time I wasn't charged anything but the FBO's ramp fee. At the time it was about $15 total for a 172 for both the ramp fee and landing fee if you were there less than a couple of hours.
 

minitour

New Member
The AIM says to report arriving at the holding fix, so you do that.

"N12345 cleared direct to CXR hold east, 10 mile legs, EFC 1200 time now 1100"

When you see the flag change (you've arrived at CXR), you would call "Center, N12345 at CXR 10,000 11:15Z"

-mini
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
I work a great deal of mids at the TRACON and the only time you would even think about being allowed a practice approach would be some time between 1:30am and about 3:00am. Between the check haulers, UPS, FedEx, late night weather delayed arrivals etc there is not that much downtime at A80. Throw in some crappy weather and there is no downtime. I am happy, all day long to give you practice approaches at PDK, FTY, LZU, RYY, FFC etc. The tower especially nowadays is not to keen on practice approaches at the busiest airport in the world, no matter what time it is. Midnight ground movement is a bitch and they don't need to be watching someone practice when there are other airports available in the general vicinity.
 

Barty

Well-Known Member
Midnight ground movement is a bitch and they don't need to be watching someone practice when there are other airports available in the general vicinity.
I can attest to that. On one of my aforementioned landings there, it probably took me a good 4-5 minutes to get a word in to ground control just to get a taxi clearance...at 1am!

While I've got your attention, have you heard if Dobbins will allow civil aircraft to practice PAR approaches any longer?
 

AUATC

New Member
Starting at 12:30am to 3:30am you can probably get a practice approach depending on which controller is working. ATL has 10 ILS systems all funded and supported by tax dollars. They should be available to everyone as long as no itinerant aircraft is delayed. You can always file an IFR and make a full stop and then pick up your IFR outbound as you taxi through the ramp. This would only work during the hours above. During othertimes your would be guaranteed a 30 minute taxi time or more.
As far as practice ILS approaches in the area, the rule "traffic permitting applies". It is not uncommon for approaches to be denied at PDK, FTY, RYY and LZU because of traffic or because it is opposite direction to the flow of traffic. Especially weekday afternoons when these places are the busiest. I have never seen an ILS approach denied at CTJ or OPN. FFC just had its ILS flight checked this week. It should be published in the near future and be a very good option.
MGE does not do practice PAR approaches for civilian aircraft, however LSF will on occasions and TOI will always do them since it is a joint use airport.
 

Barty

Well-Known Member
Starting at 12:30am to 3:30am you can probably get a practice approach depending on which controller is working. ATL has 10 ILS systems all funded and supported by tax dollars. They should be available to everyone as long as no itinerant aircraft is delayed. You can always file an IFR and make a full stop and then pick up your IFR outbound as you taxi through the ramp. This would only work during the hours above. During othertimes your would be guaranteed a 30 minute taxi time or more.
As far as practice ILS approaches in the area, the rule "traffic permitting applies". It is not uncommon for approaches to be denied at PDK, FTY, RYY and LZU because of traffic or because it is opposite direction to the flow of traffic. Especially weekday afternoons when these places are the busiest. I have never seen an ILS approach denied at CTJ or OPN. FFC just had its ILS flight checked this week. It should be published in the near future and be a very good option.
MGE does not do practice PAR approaches for civilian aircraft, however LSF will on occasions and TOI will always do them since it is a joint use airport.
Thanks for the info. My original instrument instructor, pre 9/11, would take his students up to MGE to shoot a PAR when they still allowed civil aircraft to do that kind of thing.

Though it is outside of A80's airspace, RMG has an ILS as well. I've done a couple of practice approaches there myself.
 
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