flyn_ace_99
New Member
Im just doing a little survey of flight instructors... thanks for your help!
How do YOU teach a crosswind landing?
How do YOU teach a crosswind landing?
Just a survey...
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Chris_Ford
Well-Known Member
flyn_ace_99 said:
Which method or... more detailed?
I teach crab to last second slip.
Detailed:
I tell them to remember how their wind correction was on takeoff (because we're landing at the same airport) so ailerons should always be into the wind for takeoff and landing. When established in the sideslip, use the ailerons for left/right control and the rudder to keep the compass (in a C172SP) lined up with the centerline, so you don't sideload the tires. Seems to work well, especially at Crosswind Int'l Airport here... 18/36 with prevailing winds from the west.
TheFlyingTurkey
Fetus Worshiper
I taught both slip on final, and crab on final. I think it is a personal choice as to which you prefer. Remember though at an airline they want you to crab to the threshold. (which I dont prefer but have to)
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
PhotoPilot
New Member
I'm in the crab until short (SHORT!) final, then transition to a slip. In the beginning, if a student is having trouble with the slip, I'll have them do it all the way down final to get the feel for it.
There's more detail of course, but I'm assuming that you don't want to hear about pulling power back, increasing back pressure, lowering the nose gear, etc.
There's more detail of course, but I'm assuming that you don't want to hear about pulling power back, increasing back pressure, lowering the nose gear, etc.
hattrick
Well-Known Member
well seeing as the FAA says you should be stabilized on approach below 500' i tell them to use a crab up until that point. from there transition to side slip. this basically means sideslipping all the way down final. not that i dont teach the crab method all the way down i just prefer that they slip it so as to create a more stabilized approach (not changing things up at the last minute.) now advanced students can do whichever they please yet need to be able to do both. i think at the advanced stage they can develope their own technique
flyn_ace_99
New Member
Thanks for the awesome answers everyone. I'm gonna specify the question a little more.
What airspeed and configuration do you use compared to a normal landing?
What airspeed and configuration do you use compared to a normal landing?
jrh
Well-Known Member
flyn_ace_99 said:
Same airspeed as any other landing (60-65 knots in a C-152).
Flaps at whatever setting they feel comfortable with. If it's not a very strong crosswind, full flaps. If it's stronger, two notches of flaps. If it's really really strong, one notch of flaps.
And since "configuration" includes the gear position, I'll say I generally recommend extending the gear.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I agree (=especially= about the gear!). The only difference is that in an airplane with a POH that recommends a lower flap setting for slips, I will usually use the lower flap setting and the appropriate airspeed for that flap setting.jrh said:Same airspeed as any other landing (60-65 knots in a C-152).
Flaps at whatever setting they feel comfortable with. If it's not a very strong crosswind, full flaps. If it's stronger, two notches of flaps. If it's really really strong, one notch of flaps.
And since "configuration" includes the gear position, I'll say I generally recommend extending the gear.
bob loblaw
New Member
I start off by describing the two different methods of a crosswind landing and explaining the pros, and cons of each. I tell them the pro for the sideslipe method (the airplane is lined up with the runway from the base turn to final)...the pro being you know right away if you have enough control authority to cancel winddrift. The con to this method means at times a lot of pressure on the rudder for that much time can be uncomfortable to your legs.
The pro to the crab/kickout method is you don't have to hold the rudder for a long time. The con of the crab is you won't know if you have enough control authority until you transfer from the crab to the sideslip. In gusty conditions, I add a few knots to the airspeed and land with 20 degrees of flaps.
The pro to the crab/kickout method is you don't have to hold the rudder for a long time. The con of the crab is you won't know if you have enough control authority until you transfer from the crab to the sideslip. In gusty conditions, I add a few knots to the airspeed and land with 20 degrees of flaps.
Red5xwingdriver
Well-Known Member
Wuzzup! I haven't taught in a few years, but I demonstrated to my students to "dip the wing into the wind" first so that the airplane will want to correct for crosswind, THEN to come in with rudder (within 30 to 20 feet of the ground) to "track the runway until touchdown", with little to no sideload. After a little while, they'll get the coordination necessary to do both as necessary when necessary. :rawk:
The airspeed and configuration I teach them is generally by the POH, unless of course there are gusts, then I teach them to take the difference in the steady to gusty winds, divide by 2 and add that to the approach speed. The flaps would be partial depending on the winds, when they see that coming in with 30 degrees of flaps with a 25+ knot headwind will cause an approach angle steep enough to require more power to shallow out.
__________________________________
If the blue side is down, the green side is up, and the altimeter is counting down from 200 feet.......there is something VERY wrong!
__________________________________
IF the beauty of flying is Marylin Monroe, then the knowledge and skill to fly competently and safely is Joe DiMaggio....BEFORE their divorce;-)
The airspeed and configuration I teach them is generally by the POH, unless of course there are gusts, then I teach them to take the difference in the steady to gusty winds, divide by 2 and add that to the approach speed. The flaps would be partial depending on the winds, when they see that coming in with 30 degrees of flaps with a 25+ knot headwind will cause an approach angle steep enough to require more power to shallow out.
__________________________________
If the blue side is down, the green side is up, and the altimeter is counting down from 200 feet.......there is something VERY wrong!
__________________________________
IF the beauty of flying is Marylin Monroe, then the knowledge and skill to fly competently and safely is Joe DiMaggio....BEFORE their divorce;-)
dgRoot
Well-Known Member
I teach pre-solo students slip from about 500'. I have noticed though, that unless they have a real good grasp on how to keep the upwind wing down and the correct use of rudder, they won't benefit from either method. As far as speed, normal speed unless it's gusty, then increase speed by 1/2 gust factor. Flaps: If the x-wind is strong, no flap or 10 degrees work best.
On a side note, what do you guys think about manufacturer demonstrated crosswind. Limitation? Guidleine? What happens if you stack it up when trying to land with a higher than demonstrated x-wind?
Our chief pilot wants to see every pre-solo student be proficient in a 20kt crosswind. I think this is bunk, but I'd like to hear other opionions...
-Dave
On a side note, what do you guys think about manufacturer demonstrated crosswind. Limitation? Guidleine? What happens if you stack it up when trying to land with a higher than demonstrated x-wind?
Our chief pilot wants to see every pre-solo student be proficient in a 20kt crosswind. I think this is bunk, but I'd like to hear other opionions...
-Dave
hattrick
Well-Known Member
that 20kt x-wind is BS the test pilots have a max demonstrated atleast in a 172 of lower than that. so why make students perform more. could kinda be teaching them to push the limits. not that what the test pilots have demonstrated is the max it can take because they have only done what they need to for certification. ive landed with x-winds a good bit stronger but thats only because i had to and wouldnt want to be teaching pre-solo students that its ok to push the limits. of course i dont know what your flying so maybe it has a higher max demonstrated
flyn_ace_99
New Member
Thanks everyone for your comments.
This thread has kindof been a mission given to me by my flight instructor to help me bust some myths about crosswind landings that have been taught to me through out the years, yet nobody can say where they come from.
Myth 1= increase your airspeed
Myth 2= decrease your flaps
Both of which were taught to me over the years, yet when broken down, made absolutely no aerodynamic sense. When it comes down to it all, both of the above myths keep you in the air longer than you really want to be. Once ground effect is reached, the increased airspeed created by reduced flaps and the perceived need to increase airspeed in a crosswind causes the plane to have excessive float. As my instructor put it " the objective is to turn the plane into a car as soon as possible". Just maintain as normal of an approach as possible with your choice of winglow or crab method.
This does not include gust factor, just a standard crosswind.
Above all, follow your POH, the manufacturers really know what they are talking about
Anyway, thanks again for your guy's/gals help to try to prove my instructor wrong, but he rarely is... I'm lucky to have such a good one
This thread has kindof been a mission given to me by my flight instructor to help me bust some myths about crosswind landings that have been taught to me through out the years, yet nobody can say where they come from.
Myth 1= increase your airspeed
Myth 2= decrease your flaps
Both of which were taught to me over the years, yet when broken down, made absolutely no aerodynamic sense. When it comes down to it all, both of the above myths keep you in the air longer than you really want to be. Once ground effect is reached, the increased airspeed created by reduced flaps and the perceived need to increase airspeed in a crosswind causes the plane to have excessive float. As my instructor put it " the objective is to turn the plane into a car as soon as possible". Just maintain as normal of an approach as possible with your choice of winglow or crab method.
This does not include gust factor, just a standard crosswind.
Above all, follow your POH, the manufacturers really know what they are talking about
Anyway, thanks again for your guy's/gals help to try to prove my instructor wrong, but he rarely is... I'm lucky to have such a good one
Chris_Ford
Well-Known Member
flyn_ace_99 said:
Increase your airspeed has always been taught to me as only applicable with a headwind (gusty days), but the logic behind the x-wind increasing of speed might be that since the airplane is going faster, less of its vector is being taken up by the crosswind. For example, an airplane going 100 kts with a 10 kt crosswind is going to need to crab more than an airplane going 200 kts (source: geometry).
Also, keep in mind decreasing your falps lessens your lift, so once you're on the ground, you're on terra firma for good (hopefully), whereas with full flaps, a gust might be enough to throw the airplane back up in the air.
bob loblaw
New Member
flyn_ace_99 said:Thanks everyone for your comments.
This thread has kindof been a mission given to me by my flight instructor to help me bust some myths about crosswind landings that have been taught to me through out the years, yet nobody can say where they come from.
Myth 1= increase your airspeed
Myth 2= decrease your flaps
Both of which were taught to me over the years, yet when broken down, made absolutely no aerodynamic sense. When it comes down to it all, both of the above myths keep you in the air longer than you really want to be. Once ground effect is reached, the increased airspeed created by reduced flaps and the perceived need to increase airspeed in a crosswind causes the plane to have excessive float. As my instructor put it " the objective is to turn the plane into a car as soon as possible". Just maintain as normal of an approach as possible with your choice of winglow or crab method.
This does not include gust factor, just a standard crosswind.
Above all, follow your POH, the manufacturers really know what they are talking about
Anyway, thanks again for your guy's/gals help to try to prove my instructor wrong, but he rarely is... I'm lucky to have such a good one
Increasing your airspeed for gusty winds (especially headwinds) will protect you from stalling if that gusty headwind was to suddenly stop. Increasing your speed for a X-wind just gives you a little more control because of the wind. More wind over the control surfaces means more controlability, but we are not talking about a large increase of speed. Using less flaps (20 degrees in some planes) means less of a surface area for the X-wind to catch.