Jumpseating and professional courtesy

BobDDuck said:
Why won't they put sandbags on your plane? Do they think you are going to steal them or something? An easy fix would be to just start bumping passengers because of the w&b issues. I'm guessing you'd get sandbags pretty quick that way.
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Each airline is resposible for their own ballast, but since the wholly owned CS morphed into REAHS, they are now consolidating the ballast and are resposible for maintaining inventory and tracking. Contract carriers are to provide their own ballast.
 
FlyChicaga said:
True, home is more important. That's why it's important to make sure you don't get fired by missing a trip, especially in these uncertain times. It's easy to say, "get a commuter clause," except we all know that could take months if not years to accomplish.

I don't understand why we all feel the need to be such a-holes to each other. If a fellow pilot was trying to get to work when I had other options to get home, I'd do the courteous thing and allow him or her to get to work on time. As a commuter, I've had my fair share of "unfortunate circumstances," completely out of my control. Luckily we have a commuter clause in our contract, but it didn't mean I avoided a trip to the Chief Pilot's office to explain what happened.

Why do I have a feeling some of the "suck it up, that's commuting" guys don't commute?
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When I used to jumpseat back in the day (mid-90s), I was always told that etiquette was that you one should try to accomodate someone going to work, if you were going home. And that this was something I've witnessed a number of pilots do when those situations have arisen....I've done it, and it's been done for me, even by someone who had a higher priority than me on UA! That last one surprised me simply due to the extreme courtesy provided, and I couldn't thank him enough.

Now days though, and as you're pointed out Matt, it seems so many people have become so flipping hostile.

Then again, seeing how some people act and treat each other in this very forum section of JC, it's scary to think that these people are the current-day as well as future of airline crews.
 
Why do I have a feeling some of the "suck it up, that's commuting" guys don't commute?
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Because it is true, Matt. :p

it seems so many people have become so flipping hostile.
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That is perfect deomstration of "What have you done for me lately?" mentality, MikeD.
 
MikeD said:
Then again, seeing how some people act and treat each other in this very forum section of JC, it's scary to think that these people are the current-day as well as future of airline crews.
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The funny thing is, us regional guys who "hate" each other will be sharing the same cockpits at Delta, Southwest, UPS, FedEx, Continental, American, etc... and everything will be hunky dory.
 
FlyChicaga said:
True, home is more important. That's why it's important to make sure you don't get fired by missing a trip, especially in these uncertain times. It's easy to say, "get a commuter clause," except we all know that could take months if not years to accomplish.

I don't understand why we all feel the need to be such a-holes to each other. If a fellow pilot was trying to get to work when I had other options to get home, I'd do the courteous thing and allow him or her to get to work on time. As a commuter, I've had my fair share of "unfortunate circumstances," completely out of my control. Luckily we have a commuter clause in our contract, but it didn't mean I avoided a trip to the Chief Pilot's office to explain what happened.

Why do I have a feeling some of the "suck it up, that's commuting" guys don't commute?
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95% do go out of their way to help out their fellow pilots.
 
FlyChicaga said:
True, home is more important. That's why it's important to make sure you don't get fired by missing a trip, especially in these uncertain times. It's easy to say, "get a commuter clause," except we all know that could take months if not years to accomplish.
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The pilot in the initial post works for a non-union airline. Did he vote for ALPA? If so, I might have some sympathy and give him the ride. If he says he didn't, I would have zero sympathy. The reason he doesn't have a commuter clause is because he doesn't have any ability to negotiate for it, and if he voted "no," then it's his own fault.

Luckily we have a commuter clause in our contract, but it didn't mean I avoided a trip to the Chief Pilot's office to explain what happened.
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I'm not sure what your commuting clause says, but Pinnacle used to try that crap of calling you in to the CP's office to explain, and I always told the pilots to simply refuse to answer any questions.

CP: "Why weren't you to work on time?"
Pilot: "I called in per the contract."
CP: "Yeah, I know, but why?"
Pilot: "I called in per the contract."
CP: "What flights did you show up for?"
Pilot: "I called in per the contract."

Pretty flippin' simple.

Why do I have a feeling some of the "suck it up, that's commuting" guys don't commute?
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I commuted for over 5 years, and I never would have even considered asking someone that was going home to be with his family to give me his seat so I could go to work. His travel is far more important than mine. That's what commuter clauses are for.

Socal321 said:
Wow seriously? Not something you'd expect to hear from someone with an ALPA avatar.
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Read the rest of what I said: trying to get home to be with family is more important. Yes, I care about people getting to work, which is why I always made such a big deal of going up to the gate to make sure I knew about any jumpseaters the gate agent was trying to leave behind, but if there's a guy trying to be with his family instead, I care more about that guy.
 
H46Bubba said:
Each airline is resposible for their own ballast, but since the wholly owned CS morphed into REAHS, they are now consolidating the ballast and are resposible for maintaining inventory and tracking. Contract carriers are to provide their own ballast.
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Be nice if they could tell us what happened to our own ballast. Problem is, we don't have any one that works ground service in DTW or MSP that are "contract carrier" personnel. Stuff either gets left out, walks away or just flat out disappears. I'm not a huge fan of the way ground service is run in MSP or DTW. When you sit at a gate waiting to get parked for 20 minutes, then watch them marshal in the -900 that JUST got there into the gate next to you, it doesn't really sit well.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The pilot in the initial post works for a non-union airline. Did he vote for ALPA?guy.
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Ok I didn't even read the rest of the post because this confirms my initial thought as to why you didn't care. <redacted> ALPAs role is not to pin pilot's against each other. Leaving him behind will not win him over at the next ALPA drive.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I would never even consider asking someone to give up their jumpseat. The rules are the rules. Now, that being said, I have volunteered to give up the jumpseat a few times for people in special circumstances, but it's usually someone trying to get home, not get to work. Truth be told, I really couldn't care less if you're trying to get to work. Get a commuter clause if you're so worried about commuting to work. Home is more important.
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I gave up my jumpseat on Dec 23 last year.
 
ATN, remember the conversation we had about using the jumpseat for political purposes? It's not professional or conducive to any of us furthering our profession.

If you feel THAT strongly, get the pilot on the jumpseat and talk about the virtues of organized labor, not swing around the virtual bat in a "Join Us or DIE" mentality.
 
Doug Taylor said:
ATN, remember the conversation we had about using the jumpseat for political purposes? It's not professional or conducive to any of us furthering our profession.

If you feel THAT strongly, get the pilot on the jumpseat and talk about the virtues of organized labor, not swing around the virtual bat in a "Join Us or DIE" mentality.
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As I've said before, you and I will never agree on that.

But that's not even what this is about. This is about what is more important: family or work. A guy going home to be with his family for his two days off is far more important than the guy trying to get to work who can either use his commuter clause or use his sick time.
 
Doug Taylor said:
If you feel THAT strongly, get the pilot on the jumpseat and talk about the virtues of organized labor, not swing around the virtual bat in a "Join Us or DIE" mentality.
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Want to guess what one of the biggest reasons I've heard people give for not voting for ALPA at Skywest has been?

That being said, I agree with ATN that if there is no disciplinary action possible, getting home is more important than getting to work. I don't get mad and lose sleep if I don't get to work; I usually end up drinking angrily and expensively in a hotel bar if I don't get home.
 
ATN-

You do know that whatever I or you would do with our jumpseats is a moot a point anyway as we re both FOs and we don't have one.

I just think that we need to do a better job at elucidating that those are your personal opinions about how a Jumpseat should be used, not necessarily ALPA's policies or your respective pilot group.
 
To get this thread back on track.......

Any hope I had about people being reasonable about the jumpseat was lost earlier this year when someone bumped me out of the jumpseat when I was trying to get up to BUF the morning after 3407.

The Captain of the flight knew, the jumpseater knew (he had about 15 other options to get to work in time by the way), and the gate agents knew. Gate agents were awesome about it, other two, can't say the same.
 
Seggy said:
To get this thread back on track.......

Any hope I had about people being reasonable about the jumpseat was lost earlier this year when someone bumped me out of the jumpseat when I was trying to get up to BUF the morning after 3407.

The Captain of the flight knew, the jumpseater knew (he had about 15 other options to get to work in time by the way), and the gate agents knew. Gate agents were awesome about it, other two, can't say the same.
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Thats just cold.
 
BobDDuck said:
Side note... I've been in the second jumpseat of a 320 in DEN and had a United captain (not the one flying the flight) convince the gate agent to put the jetway BACK on the airplane after she pulled it so he could get on board and kick me off. That sucked, but hey, it's his company's plane.
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A good way to stay on a plane once on it is to have some of your baggage put in the cargo bin. If someone wants to bump you out of the seat last-minute, it will cause too much of a delay to fish your bags out. This strategy is particularly useful if you are commuting to a delay-prone airport where flights have a higher tendency to gate-return.
 
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