Jumpseating and professional courtesy

Bumblebee

Bumblebee

Commodore
I heard a story, and I wanted to get your opinions...

A friend of mine was trying to commute to base for reserve. His first flight was late due to a mx issue, and instead of arriving at the gate for his second flight (to base) 1 1/2 hours early, he arrived just 20 minutes before departure (on another airline).


He saw another pilot from our company who was junior to him, who had been there for over an hour. He was returning home after a weekend with his girlfriend and did not have to work until the next day.

My friend asked him what time his trip left since there was only the JS available, but the guy said he was not working, but just wanted to get home. My friend asked if he would mind taking the next one so that he cold get to work on time. The other pilot said no, I really want to go home. (He was on leisure travel) My friend did not get to base until several hours after his rsv time, but was not called (lucky).

My question, what do you think should have happened in this situation?

What is the etiquitte?



If it were on our metal, my friend would have been able to bump him based on seniority, but since this was another carrier the rules were first come first on.
 
Bumblebee said:
I heard a story, and I wanted to get your opinions...

A friend of mine was trying to commute to base for reserve. His first flight was late due to a mx issue, and instead of arriving at the gate for his second flight (to base) 1 1/2 hours early, he arrived just 20 minutes before departure (on another airline).


He saw another pilot from our company who was junior to him, who had been there for over an hour. He was returning home after a weekend with his girlfriend and did not have to work until the next day.

My friend asked him what time his trip left since there was only the JS available, but the guy said he was not working, but just wanted to get home. My friend asked if he would mind taking the next one so that he cold get to work on time. The other pilot said no, I really want to go home. (He was on leisure travel) My friend did not get to base until several hours after his rsv time, but was not called (lucky).

My question, what do you think should have happened in this situation?

What is the etiquitte?



If it were on our metal, my friend would have been able to bump him based on seniority, but since this was another carrier the rules were first come first on.
Click to expand...


I blame the captain of the revenue flight for not kicking a passenger off to accommodate both of them...

:dunno:
 
Dale, that brings up a question. UA pilots are always telling me the "first come first serve" thing is bs, and senior captains who show up at the last second are always trying to get me to yank less senior UA pilots who are already in the JS off the plane. I tell them its first come first serve for UA on our metal and our captains always back me up, but I've had no less than 10 "lectures" from UA pilots about how its all senority.

OA jumpseaters on our metal are first come first serve, right?

Also, I haven't had this happen yet to me yet(but I know of it happening), but if say, a pilot from another UAX carrier is already set up for the jump and a mainline UA guy shows up and insists they get priority since they're mainline. Still first come first serve ,right?
 
ChasenSFO said:
Dale, that brings up a question. UA pilots are always telling me the "first come first serve" thing is bs, and senior captains who show up at the last second are always trying to get me to yank less senior UA pilots who are already in the JS off the plane. I tell them its first come first serve for UA on our metal and our captains always back me up, but I've had no less than 10 "lectures" from UA pilots about how its all senority.

OA jumpseaters on our metal are first come first serve, right?

Also, I haven't had this happen yet to me yet(but I know of it happening), but if say, a pilot from another UAX carrier is already set up for the jump and a mainline UA guy shows up and insists they get priority since they're mainline. Still first come first serve ,right?
Click to expand...
After official jumpseaters such as a check airman, or FAA then

4 Company pilots by pilot date of hire.
5 Company dispatchers and Company FAA licensed mechanics (mx only for operational need)
6 ASA pilots
7
• On flights operated as United Express:
1. United/United Express pilots in order of checkin
2. Delta/Delta Connection pilots in order of checkin
• On flights operated as Delta Connection:
1. Delta/Delta Connection pilots in order of checkin
2. United/United Express pilots in order of checkin
8 Pilots employed by other airlines with reciprocating agreements in order
of checkin.

You could print this and keep it in your pocket...when someone starts to lecture you just show them this and tell them sorry you would like to help, but this is the order of priority for jumpseaters on SkyWest Airlines.

Our pilots have moved below GoJet and Transstates for UAX priority on UAL.
 
Bumblebee said:
I heard a story, and I wanted to get your opinions...

A friend of mine was trying to commute to base for reserve. His first flight was late due to a mx issue, and instead of arriving at the gate for his second flight (to base) 1 1/2 hours early, he arrived just 20 minutes before departure (on another airline).


He saw another pilot from our company who was junior to him, who had been there for over an hour. He was returning home after a weekend with his girlfriend and did not have to work until the next day.

My friend asked him what time his trip left since there was only the JS available, but the guy said he was not working, but just wanted to get home. My friend asked if he would mind taking the next one so that he cold get to work on time. The other pilot said no, I really want to go home. (He was on leisure travel) My friend did not get to base until several hours after his rsv time, but was not called (lucky).

My question, what do you think should have happened in this situation?

What is the etiquitte?



If it were on our metal, my friend would have been able to bump him based on seniority, but since this was another carrier the rules were first come first on.
Click to expand...
Ideally there should be a commuter clause in the contract that would protect your friend. If not he should live in base or roll the dice.

Just me, I would not ask to take the JS from someone else who was listed before me unless if was a family emergency. I doubt I would give it up either. Holding a reserve line out of base is a pain, but why should that give him priority? The other guy needs to give up his day off, or part thereof because the commuter didn't plan for contingencies?
 
Thanks Dale, I'll put that in my wallet for next time the issue comes up. Glad to know I was right, despite being called an "idiot" for refusing to tell a UA F/O to come back upstairs because a guy who probably started his career on the Stratocruiser strolled up to the gate and decided list at closing time.
 
Why should that give him priority? The other guy needs to give up his day off, or part thereof because the commuter didn't plan for contingencies?
Click to expand...

I agree with you totally. :) However, I gave up my seat exactly as "Professional Courtsey" yesterday morning. The reason I gave up my seat because of the following reason:

1. I have no pressure to be somewhere. He did
2. There was no way that could plan the contingency plan - CRJ could not take 50 pax.
3. Do something nice for other colleagues ==> networking

Just my 0.02

[Hijack]
CRJ / 9E guys, I am just wondering about how much fuel do you guy usually take for a following condition:
46 pax - 1 child, 32 bag(1 heavy), 19 valet bags, planned flight time about an hour and 5 minutes, FL300 for cruising.
[End of hijack]
 
Before I left, you listed for the JS and whoever listed first was it. I tried to put on as many as there were open seats.

In this case, it is a 'wcaga' (what comes around goes around). We don't know the full story of the guy trying to get home. And since the second guy made it without getting nailed, I would drop it.

Happy Thanksgiving to all and may all 'migrant workers' be able to commute home in time for family, food and good times.
 
I wouldn't even ask. The other guy was there first. Yes it sucks that plan B wasn't working for your friend, but that's the nature of commuting.

Of course, I do operate under a commuter clause that protects me if I miss two flights so I feel a little less pressure than people who don't have that protection in place.

Side note... I've been in the second jumpseat of a 320 in DEN and had a United captain (not the one flying the flight) convince the gate agent to put the jetway BACK on the airplane after she pulled it so he could get on board and kick me off. That sucked, but hey, it's his company's plane.
 
adreamer said:
I agree with you totally. :) However, I gave up my seat exactly as "Professional Courtsey" yesterday morning. The reason I gave up my seat because of the following reason:

1. I have no pressure to be somewhere. He did
2. There was no way that could plan the contingency plan - CRJ could not take 50 pax.
3. Do something nice for other colleagues ==> networkin
Click to expand...


There is a place for this too, and under some circumstances I would offer. But then again, if I was in this particular situation I wouldn't ask.
Showing kindness is never a bad call.
 
granlistillo said:
There is a place for this too, and under some circumstances I would offer. But then again, if I was in this particular situation I wouldn't ask.
Showing kindness is never a bad call.
Click to expand...

On my own metal - I have no problem pulling the seniority card to get on an airplane *if I need to get somewhere* and it's important (like work, or going home).

However, I have, on OAL metal (Delta), given up my "prioritized" spot as a DCI pilot to an OAL pilot (AirTran) who I could have bumped, because this pilot was trying to go home, and I was just going to visit my friend for the weekend.
 
Only hearing one side of the story, maybe the guy hadn't been home in forever and his wife was threatening to divorce him, etc etc. Getting home is just as important as getting to work! :p
 
adreamer said:
3. Do something nice for other colleagues ==> networking


[End of hijack]
Click to expand...


That's a great point. I've heard of stories like that where future employment was found based on Jumpseat courtesy.

Sounds like the guy was having a bad day, normally people will give up their spot for cases like this.
 
IMO, I wouldn't just up and ask someone for a favor, but if it came up in conversation that the selected was just going home, I might ask for a favor. If I got nothing you bet I would remember. If I were in the selected's shoes, I would gladly step aside. After all, the whole point of the jumpseat is to get people to work, right? It just confuses me how unconsciously selfish some people are.
 
I would never even consider asking someone to give up their jumpseat. The rules are the rules. Now, that being said, I have volunteered to give up the jumpseat a few times for people in special circumstances, but it's usually someone trying to get home, not get to work. Truth be told, I really couldn't care less if you're trying to get to work. Get a commuter clause if you're so worried about commuting to work. Home is more important.
 
I'd never ask anyone to give up the jumpseat, but if someone asked me and were in desperate need to get to work to make a sign-in when I could take the next flight, I'd be more than happy to.

Also, if a flight attendant wants to jumpseat and I can make a cabin seat available for them by occupying the cockpit jumpseat, I will do that as well. It's just good to help an airline brother and sister out!
 
adreamer said:
[Hijack]
CRJ / 9E guys, I am just wondering about how much fuel do you guy usually take for a following condition:
46 pax - 1 child, 32 bag(1 heavy), 19 valet bags, planned flight time about an hour and 5 minutes, FL300 for cruising.
[End of hijack]
Click to expand...

Alternate or no alternate? Here's the issue with our CRJs, it's more of a balance issue than a max weight issue unless it's a shorter flight with an alternate filed. If you're going out of DTW, you're jumpseating smack in the middle of a war between us and the new Delta ground service conglomerate. See, the wholly owneds can use sandbags, but they won't put sand bags on non-wholly owned flights. So, if we need ballast....we're SOL in DTW. They won't put them on our flights. We've had a LOT of guys not able to jumpseat because of this. Our jumpseat committee is working on it, but who knows how long it's gonna take to cut through the red tape and politics. We had Pinnacle ballast up there, but a DTW CA said it's down to only a few left. It's somehow been dispersed to outstations and not making it back to the hubs.

Here's another thing to think about in this situation. The guy that had the JS was traveling with his wife. Would she even be able to make the next flight? It's possible she didn't want to hang out in the airport a few more hours, possibly more. IMO, in this situation, the person was maybe asking both the jumpseater AND his wife to wait.
 
Why won't they put sandbags on your plane? Do they think you are going to steal them or something? An easy fix would be to just start bumping passengers because of the w&b issues. I'm guessing you'd get sandbags pretty quick that way.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Truth be told, I really couldn't care less if you're trying to get to work. Get a commuter clause if you're so worried about commuting to work. Home is more important.
Click to expand...

True, home is more important. That's why it's important to make sure you don't get fired by missing a trip, especially in these uncertain times. It's easy to say, "get a commuter clause," except we all know that could take months if not years to accomplish.

I don't understand why we all feel the need to be such a-holes to each other. If a fellow pilot was trying to get to work when I had other options to get home, I'd do the courteous thing and allow him or her to get to work on time. As a commuter, I've had my fair share of "unfortunate circumstances," completely out of my control. Luckily we have a commuter clause in our contract, but it didn't mean I avoided a trip to the Chief Pilot's office to explain what happened.

Why do I have a feeling some of the "suck it up, that's commuting" guys don't commute?
 
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