Judge lets American Airlines toss out its pilots contract

[DE727UPS]

>Maybe that's where my disdain for airline unions come from. They're great at protecting the individual pilots job, not so great at keeping everyone's job or pay rates intact"

Airline unions and labor can't fight a fair battle. The system is skewed in favor of management and the government backs them up. That said, the unions are all that stand between airline pilots being nothing more than bus drivers with similar compensation and career standing. The problem is pilots are the last link in the chain and we have a lot more at stake than a bus driver. We serve the FAA as well as the airlines we fly for. While we are paid by the airline, the FAA expects us to do our job to a high standard and that costs money. Money the airlines would rather send to the stockholders and CEO's. We MUST do our job at the highest level, while the airlines give lip service to backing us up just as long as it doesn't cost too much. The unions goal is to collectively create a better good for each of us if we act as an organized group rather than individuals. There is power in that. Limited power, power limited by the government and RLA. But the unions are the only power we have.

I'd hate to think where our biz would be without the unions. The lowest common denominator is a scary thought....

 

[Screaming_Eagle_ATC]

>Maybe that's where my disdain for airline unions come from. They're great at protecting the individual pilots job, not so great at keeping everyone's job or pay rates intact"

Airline unions and labor can't fight a fair battle. The system is skewed in favor of management and the government backs them up. That said, the unions are all that stand between airline pilots being nothing more than bus drivers with similar compensation and career standing. The problem is pilots are the last link in the chain and we have a lot more at stake than a bus driver. We serve the FAA as well as the airlines we fly for. While we are paid by the airline, the FAA expects us to do our job to a high standard and that costs money. Money the airlines would rather send to the stockholders and CEO's. We MUST do our job at the highest level, while the airlines give lip service to backing us up just as long as it doesn't cost too much. The unions goal is to collectively create a better good for each of us if we act as an organized group rather than individuals. There is power in that. Limited power, power limited by the government and RLA. But the unions are the only power we have.

I'd hate to think where our biz would be without the unions. The lowest common denominator is a scary thought....

You could always picket right ... oh wait never mind

 

[MikeD]

That said, the unions are all that stand between airline pilots being nothing more than bus drivers with similar compensation and career standing. ...

Does this mean that the unions representing the various regional pilot groups are failing in their task?

 

[derg]

Pretty disgusting, though what happens after 'Merican leaves BK? Doesn't the BK contract go away? Also at least the pilots kept they're normal pay for this long... Just trying to find a silver-lining in this misery.

Nope

They voted in a concessionary contract to "Save The Company"TM

Once BK is over, they're still under it until they reach their amendable date.


Sent from my TRS-80

 

[PositionAndHold]

>Maybe that's where my disdain for airline unions come from. They're great at protecting the individual pilots job, not so great at keeping everyone's job or pay rates intact"

Airline unions and labor can't fight a fair battle. The system is skewed in favor of management and the government backs them up. That said, the unions are all that stand between airline pilots being nothing more than bus drivers with similar compensation and career standing. The problem is pilots are the last link in the chain and we have a lot more at stake than a bus driver. We serve the FAA as well as the airlines we fly for. While we are paid by the airline, the FAA expects us to do our job to a high standard and that costs money. Money the airlines would rather send to the stockholders and CEO's. We MUST do our job at the highest level, while the airlines give lip service to backing us up just as long as it doesn't cost too much. The unions goal is to collectively create a better good for each of us if we act as an organized group rather than individuals. There is power in that. Limited power, power limited by the government and RLA. But the unions are the only power we have.

I'd hate to think where our biz would be without the unions. The lowest common denominator is a scary thought....

That's what I meant when I said their good at protecting a single pilots job. Bust a FAR? The union can help. Accused of drinking on the job? The union can help. Get screwed by management and the RLA? Not so much. It's the union Ra Ra cheer leading that gets a little stale. Yes it could be worse with out unions and I agree places like Sky West have benefited form union dues. In the past if you were hired by a major you were set. Sit back, wait to upgrade, get paid and call it a career. That hasn't existed for close to 15 years. If you haven't been hired within that time period there is absolutely no job security. And there probably won't ever be any. In fact I would suggest that is the case with most any private sector jobs. Sorry for the tangent. It's just sad where corporate greed and "stock holder value" has gotten us as a country.

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

Nope

They voted in a concessionary contract to "Save The Company"TM

Once BK is over, they're still under it until they reach their amendable date.


Sent from my TRS-80

Gotchya, at which point management drags they're feet for years to take advantage of cheap labor to keep the balance sheets good. Bummer.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

To everyone who thinks that re-regulation is the saviour for the 121 world, this is further evidence that such decisions from people in positions of legal power rarely benefit pilots.

False conclusion. In a regulated industry, such a ruling would be an impossibility, because bankruptcy wouldn't have occurred in the first place. The bankruptcy era is a direct result of deregulation, and therefore, abrogated contracts and concessionary deals are a direct result of deregulation.

 

[WestIndian425]

That's what I meant when I said their good at protecting a single pilots job. Bust a FAR? The union can help. Accused of drinking on the job? The union can help. Get screwed by management and the RLA? Not so much. It's the union Ra Ra cheer leading that gets a little stale. Yes it could be worse with out unions and I agree places like Sky West have benefited form union dues. In the past if you were hired by a major you were set. Sit back, wait to upgrade, get paid and call it a career. That hasn't existed for close to 15 years. If you haven't been hired within that time period there is absolutely no job security. And there probably won't ever be any. In fact I would suggest that is the case with most any private sector jobs. Sorry for the tangent. It's just sad where corporate greed and "stock holder value" has gotten us as a country.

Adam Smith's "The Invisible Hand"

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I hope the AA pilots send a sharp reminder on who executes the operation in the coming weeks.

 

[MikeD]

I hope the AA pilots send a sharp reminder on who executes the operation in the coming weeks.

How will they do that?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

How will they do that?

Pilots do a lot of favors to help speed the operation along every day. Those can just end and the operation will come grinding to a halt.

 

[MikeD]

Pilots do a lot of favors to help speed the operation along every day. Those can just end and the operation will come grinding to a halt.

Wouldn't that be akin to the old Vietnam war methodology of "we need to burn down this village in order to save it"?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Wouldn't that be akin to the old Vietnam war methodology of "we need to burn down this village in order to save it"?

If mgmt doesn't realize what just happened, it can turn out that way...

However, in the past (ASA and NW), that has brought them back to the table in a very quick and more reasonable manner.

 

[derg]

How will they do that?

We have our ways, Michael.

 

[Maurus]

Wouldn't that be akin to the old Vietnam war methodology of "we need to burn down this village in order to save it"?

One of the oldest pilot groups in the industry is about to lose their retirement. What exactly do they have to lose beyond a few years of crappy pay?

 

[adreamer]

It is going to be fun commuting through Chicago today.

 

[bronco21016]

Burn it to the ground!

 

[jskibo]

Trip to Tampa coming up, perhaps I need "Skymiles" more than I need "AAdvantage" miles this trip

 

[Hacker15e]

False conclusion. In a regulated industry, such a ruling would be an impossibility, because bankruptcy wouldn't have occurred in the first place. The bankruptcy era is a direct result of deregulation, and therefore, abrogated contracts and concessionary deals are a direct result of deregulation.

Yes, you're totally correct on that. There were not bankruptcies before 1978.

I suppose I chose an inappropriate example to make the point.

 

[planejay]

Does that mean eagle's contract is out the window too? This doesn't help the folks at Pinnacle.