John Wayne movie Flying Tigers

C

cecyt1300

New Member
Hey guys! I have a question for you. But first, if this should be in Technical please move it.

I was watching The Flying Tigers earlier this week (Tuesday on TCM) and noticed the P-40s had a weird "thing" on the top of the nose (engine cowling). It only showed up on the shots of the planes on the ground. Once in the air they pretty much used all stock footage. I have no idea what the "thing" was and am curious if anyone knows what I'm talking about. It was cylindrical, like a pipe coming up at an angle out of the nose cover. It also looked like there could have been a gun placement on either side of it. I wish I could explain it better. :banghead:

I have never seen anything like that on a P-40 before. Does anyone know what I am talking about?

Thanks,
Dan
 
Citation,

Thanks for posting the link, but that is not what I saw.

I'll try to find a picture of it. Keep your fingers crossed...
 
This is as close as I can get. I hope you can tell what I am talking about.

Citation, I owe you an apology. What you linked to is pretty much the same, without the smaller parts on each side, whcih I think are gun ports.

What is this thing for?
http://www.oldplanes.com/ap40av.htm

I SWEAR that when in the air they did not have any of that stuff on top of th enose. I have never seen that set up on the P-40 on any show or anything. This does not mean it didn't exist, I just have never seen it and am cxurious.

Wow. I can't find a picture without the center thing now. Apparently it was always there and I missed it?
 
The AVG had either B or C models with two 30 cals in the nose and I think two 40 cals in each wing. The D model got the six pack of 50s.

THe thingy betweeen the nose guns -- no idea.
 
It looks like an air scoop of some sort. Maybe cooling air for the engine or maybe it bypasses right into the cockpit.
 
Could be additional ram-air intake. Not sure. Wish you'd asked this a year ago. My buddy's grandfather was a P40 mechanic and would have known.
 
cecyt1300 said:
I have never seen anything like that on a P-40 before. Does anyone know what I am talking about?

Thanks,
Dan
Click to expand...

Hi Dan! The American Volunteer Group was originally equipped with Curtiss Tomahawk IIB fighters built for the British. They were similar to the U.S. Army P-40B--a pretty, small-mouthed fighter that seemed designed to be decorated with a sharkface around its main air scoop, which drew in outside air to cool the oil and Prestone radiators.

The topside of the cowling had three humps, the outside two housing fifty-caliber machineguns and the middle one the carburetor air intake. The pilot's manual for the Tomahawk can be seen at www.warbirdforum.com/manual.htm

Starting with the big-jawed P-40D, Curtiss put fifty-caliber guns in the wings and did away with two of those humps. The carb air intake remained, however. Dunno if it went through the entire line.

The John Wayne fighter unit bore almost no resemblance to the real AVG, whose pilots were all recruited from the U.S. military, and whose first combat took place after the attack on Pearl Harbor. The P-40s in the movie were studio dummies plus some early-model P-40s borrowed from an army training squadron.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Coming in September: Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
 
Oldpilot said:
Hi Dan! The American Volunteer Group was originally equipped with Curtiss Tomahawk IIB fighters built for the British. They were similar to the U.S. Army P-40B--a pretty, small-mouthed fighter that seemed designed to be decorated with a sharkface around its main air scoop, which drew in outside air to cool the oil and Prestone radiators.

The topside of the cowling had three humps, the outside two housing fifty-caliber machineguns and the middle one the carburetor air intake. The pilot's manual for the Tomahawk can be seen at www.warbirdforum.com/manual.htm

Starting with the big-jawed P-40D, Curtiss put fifty-caliber guns in the wings and did away with two of those humps. The carb air intake remained, however. Dunno if it went through the entire line.

The John Wayne fighter unit bore almost no resemblance to the real AVG, whose pilots were all recruited from the U.S. military, and whose first combat took place after the attack on Pearl Harbor. The P-40s in the movie were studio dummies plus some early-model P-40s borrowed from an army training squadron.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Coming in September: Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
Click to expand...

Hi Dan!

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. That explains a lot and makes perfect sense.

I'll be spending no small amount of time checking out all of the information on the warbirds site you linked to.

I'll be sure to check out your book here shortly. As soon as I finish reading my Private Pilot's Manual. ;)

Blue Skies,
Dan
 
I always thought it was the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk. Hadn't heard Tomahawk before - was that a Navy version?

p40-warhawk-1.gif
 
Mr_Creepy said:
I always thought it was the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk. Hadn't heard Tomahawk before - was that a Navy version?

Some where I read that the P-40 originally did not have a nick name. Later versions that had larger engines wer called Warhawks. The ones exported to Great Britain and France, were dubbed Tomahawks. I was always curious with teeth painted on them how they got Hawk in their nickname?
Click to expand...
 
Curtiss had a long history of naming their fighter aircraft some variation of "Hawk."

The airplane in my avatar is a Curtiss F11C Goshawk, a Navy version closely related to the Army Air Corps' beautiful P6 Hawk.
250px-Curtiss_P-6_Hawk.jpg
 
Mr_Creepy said:
I always thought it was the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk. Hadn't heard Tomahawk before - was that a Navy version?
Click to expand...

The British were the first to use the P-40 in combat. They picked up the P-40B model, made some changes in it, and bought it as the Tomahawk starting in the winter of 1940-1941.

It was planes off the Curtiss assembly line building Tomahawks for North Africa that were diverted to a Chinese order and used to equip the AVG Flying Tigers. This caused a number of problems for the AVGs. For example, the U.S. Army optical gunsights supplied to them weren't compatible with the British "armourglass" behind the windshield, so AVG mechanics had to jury-rig a bracket for it. The first Tomahawks in combat actually used the iron ring-and-post sights.

When the British got their hands on the P-40D, the first to have the big jaw shown in your photo, they figured it was a different plane, which they called the Kittyhawk.

The U.S. Army picked up fighting names from the RAF in a lot of cases (Mustang, Lightning, Havoc) but for some reason the army (or Curtiss) coined a different version for the P-40, and in U.S. service all models were known as Warhawks. I'm just accustomed to saying Tomahawk because I've been studying the Flying Tigers for more than twenty years now.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Coming August 21: Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
 
akaFlyboy 4 said:
Mr_Creepy said:
The ones exported to Great Britain and France, were dubbed Tomahawks. I was always curious with teeth painted on them how they got Hawk in their nickname?
Click to expand...

I think all Curtiss warplanes built for the U.S. military had the designation Hawk, if only in their model number beginning with H. The P-36 was known to Curtiss as the H-75, and the British picked it up as the Mohawk.

The "sharkface" started in World War I, but took on its present more menacing aspect when German pilots over Crete painted their Messerschmitt Bf-110s with lips, teeth, and tongue. The RAF pilots who opposed them were in 112 Squadron, in Gloster Gladiators. They were whupped and withdrawn to North Africa to be refitted with Tomahawks--which they painted with sharkfaces.

While the AVGs were training in Burma, they came across a photo of a 112 Squadron Tomahawk, and they copied the design. From there it spread through U.S. service, especially in China, and Mustangs and even B-25s were painted with sharkfaces.

(Note that when John Wayne was making the movie in the early months of 1942, the sharkface hadn't yet penetrated into the American consciousness.)

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Coming August 21: Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
Click to expand...
 
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